22-250 CAST AND JACKETED BULLETS

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  • Last Post 07 July 2017
joeb33050 posted this 27 June 2017

 

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joeb33050 posted this 27 June 2017

c and j

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 June 2017

here is some more info to go with joeb's target above.

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ALL 22-250, 100 YARD 5-SHOT GROUPS
ALL WITH WEAVER T36 SCOPE.
8.5 GR. SEEMS TO BE THE MOST ACCURATE TITEGROUP CHARGE.
THESE ARE THE LATEST AND BEST GROUPS.

M11 BARREL CUT TO 16.5”, 12” TWIST? IN STRIKER PISTOL ACTION AND STOCK

5/10/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 6 GROUPS AVG 1.304”
5/15/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP,11 GROUPS AVG 1.350”
5/17/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP,13 GROUPS AVG 1.648”
30 GROUPS AVERAGE 1.470”

5/10/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 8.5 TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG .780”

M11 BARREL CUT TO 16.5”, 12” TWIST?, IN M 10 ACTION AND RIFLE STOCK

5/22/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP,5 GROUPS AVG 1.360”
5/31/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.385”
6/22/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.570”
10 GROUPS AVERAGE 1.440”

5/22/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 2 GROUPS AVG .925
5/31/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG .815”
5/31/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG .755”
12 GROUPS AVERAGE .808”
   
M110 BARREL, RECHAMBERED FROM 223 TO 22-250, CUT TO 16.5”, 12”
 TWIST?,  IN STRIKER PISTOL ACTION AND STOCK

3/20/17, 225646M, 7.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.310”
3/23/17, 225646M, 75 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.450”
3/25/17, 225646M, 7.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.680”
15 GROUPS AVERAGE 1.480”

3/27/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 7.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 3 GROUPS AVG .867”

BLUE STRIKER BARREL, 14” TWIST?

2/27/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.185”
3/8/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.405”
3/8/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.440”
15 GROUPS AVERAGE 1.343”

4/24/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 3 GROUPS AVG 1.067”
5/1/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 7.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG .945”
8 GROUPS AVERAGE .991”



SS STRIKER BARREL, 14” TWIST?

3/29/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.531”
3/31/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 2 GROUPS AVG 1.988”
4/3/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 4 GROUPS AVG 1.150”
4/3/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.400”
4/5/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 6 GROUPS AVG 1.413”
22 GROUPS AVERAGE 1.441”

12/5/16, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 7.0 GR. TITEGROUP, 3 GROUPS AVG .850”
12/26/16, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 7.0 GR. TITEGROUP, 4 GROUPS AVG 1.313”
4/7/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 4 GROUPS AVG .894”
11 GROUPS AVERAGE 1.029”

NEW SHILEN BARREL, 9” TWIST? IN SAVAGE 12FV ACTION AND STOCK

I’VE BEEN SHOOTING THIS BARREL SINCE JANUARY 2017; BELOW ARE THE LATEST AND BEST RESULTS SO FAR.

6/15/17, 225646M, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 4 GROUPS AVG 2.438” AFTER 34 FOULING SHOTS

6/15/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 2 GROUPS AVG 1.275” AFTER 54 CAST BULLET SHOTS

6/26/17, 40 GR NOSLER VARMAGEDDON, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 5 GROUPS AVG 1.225”

6/26/17, 50 GR HORNADY V-MAX #2261, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 2 GROUPS AVG 1.150”

6/26/17, 60 GR HORNADY SP #2271, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 2 GROUPS AVG .800”

6/26/17, 68 GR HORNADY BTHP #2261, 8.5 GR. TITEGROUP, 2 GROUPS AVG 1.075”
ALL 40, 50, 60 AND 68 GR BULLETS; NO TIPPING.

THE AVERAGE FOR THE DAY, 55 SHOTS, 11 5-SHOT GROUPS, 4 BULLETS, 1.107”.

AFTER 60 JACKETED SHOTS, THE CLEANED BARREL, SOAKED WITH HOPPES #9 OVERNIGHT, SHOWED NO SIGNS OF BLUE/GREEN COPPER FOULING.




What I think I’ve learned:
 
Jacketed bullets shoot more accurately than cast bullets at ~ cast bullet velocities = cast bullet powder charges.

Since everything else is the same, the accuracy difference is caused by the bullets, nothing else.

Jacketed bullets at ~ cast bullet velocities do not leave copper fouling, and noise and recoil are comfortable.

I suspect that jacketed bullets at ~ cast bullet velocities do not wear the barrel as much as HV jacketed bullets.

A clean barrel requires fouling shots before it will shoot cast bullets accurately. The cleaner the barrel, the more fouling shots are required. The number of fouling shots varies from ~5 to as many as 30. Diligently cleaning the barrels, looking for blue/green = copper fouling on patches, led to very clean barrels and lotsa fouling shots required. With any = ANY cleaner I’ve tried, the third to fifth patch comes out clean. Nylon brushing with any cleaner produces dirty black patches, forever.

I cut the M11 and M110 barrels to ~ 16.5” with a hacksaw, filed the muzzles about flat, and chamfered the bores/holes with an RCBS “Cricket”. “Crowning” methods don’t seem to affect accuracy.

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John Alexander posted this 04 July 2017

Joe,

That is a remarkable set of data. Amazingly consistent. Several parts interested me.

I. All four barrels averaged almost the same accuracy.  That is exactly what I found as far as jacketed bullets were concerned with four Savage M-12 BVSSs all averaged very close to .75" for five shot groups.  I thought it was unlikely when my rifles did it.  With yours it seems even more unlikely -- but there it is. I guess that would indicate that accuracy is maybe being limited by something other than rifle accuracy.  Bullet quality, shooter consistency, etc. -- or maybe there just isn't that much difference between barrels as we often hear. 

2. You also seemed to have "hit the wall" with the 646 bullet and your best loads.  This is also similar to my 1980's experience with the 415 bullet that would average about 1.5" with two or three different loads but I couldn't get to do any better. That experience was with my only 22CF at the time however.

Until proven otherwise, I will believe that is all we can expect from with with such dumpy length to diameter ratios -- in spite of all the .5" groups with even shorter bullets blithely reported on the Internet.  I believe I am safe in saying that in forty years of CBA competition there has never been a four group aggregate even close to 1.0" in any caliber with such stumpy bullets.  Ken it is now time for you to jump in and remind us that even stumpier 22LR bullets do much better.

I agree about all the factors that most shooters worry about but shouldn't -- except seating depth.  Don't know about the 646, but the long bore riders I shoot it seems to make a difference -- although I need to confirm that.

John

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OU812 posted this 05 July 2017

Picture holding forearm firmly (top) vs. squeezing rear bag (bottom)

Today I learned how important it is to hold the rifle. The best group today was shot using bipod, a firm hold on forearm pulling downward on rifle trying to simulate a heavier rifle (heavier helps).

Load in picture was 223 Remington, 8.0 grains Titegroup, Nosler 55 grain Balistic tip bullet.

Best cast loads shot today was 7.0grains Titegroup, "20/1 alloy" 80 gr. SP bullet, Hornaday gas check, Remington 223 with 1-12 twist barrel. Will go back later and try my new holding method...I know it will work.

How you hold the lighter weight factory rifle is critical with our slower velocity bullets.

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OU812 posted this 05 July 2017

Here are my normal groups squeezing rear bag. I believe gripping forearm firmly will tighten these groups up more.

And yes...the 80 grain bullet will stabilize in the 1-12 twist Remington, but I must use softer alloy to do so. The .221 bump die helps also.

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John Alexander posted this 06 July 2017

Is anybody else out there shooting 22 or 224 cast bullets?  If so, how does your experience compare to Joe's?

John

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 06 July 2017

Just getting started - in .22 Hornet, 22 K-hornet and in 221 Fireball (all rifles).  Pursuing loads for 100/200 match and for prairie dogs.

 

 

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45 2.1 posted this 07 July 2017

Is anybody else out there shooting 22 or 224 cast bullets?  If so, how does your experience compare to Joe's?

John

 

You asked:  I've found 0.223" thru 0.225" cast of hard alloy shoot about what like Joe did. Shooting a softer alloy they did about 10% better with the common Lyman/RCBS/commercial molds. However, when shooting the MP molds for the Nato throats... cast of soft alloy water dropped and sized 0.226" and 0.227", things did quite a bit better.

If you do some measuring on groove depth, you will see the 22 caliber barrels suffer on this. A 6mm barrel has somewhat greater depth has no like problems with accuracy when compared on the same case size and bullet weight. These problems show up quite clearly when you get above 2200 fps. Does anyone know where to get a 22 caliber barrel with  0.0032" or greater groove depth without have to pay very expensive prices?

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