Bottom pour vs. dipper

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  • Last Post 01 September 2008
Able posted this 04 May 2008

I suppose this has been hashed over 1000 times already, but it all went by me, as I got away from casting and reloading for about 30 years.

Recently, after getting back into it, I bought a Lee bottom pour lead pot. I cast some lead/tin bullets and got some decent results with that alloy. Thought I was done with the old Lyman lead dipper.

Then I got some wheel weights, added some tin and lead, and cast some more. Results not quite as good. Nagging little problems, like frosty bullets, sprue sticking, vent whiskers, more rejects, etc. The usual fixes like varying temperatures, casting techniques, alloy composition, etc. did not help significantly.

Then I tried the old dipper again and, Presto, I got much better bullets; better appearance, more consistent weights, better bases, sharper mould detail.

Pulled the rod and plugged the bottom spout on the pot, and I'm back to doing it the old way with much superior results; same pot, same mould, same alloy, same temperatures, just using the dipper instead of the bottom pour feature on the pot.

I think maybe its got something to do with the temperature fluctuation at the bottom of the Lee pot as the thermostat cycles on and off. Or maybe there's too much head pressure with all that lead over the spout. Drawing lead off the bottom of the pot just doesn't work as good for me as the old dipper method.

Anyone else prefer the dipper over the bottom pour for good reason, or is it just me?

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cityboy posted this 04 May 2008

I have been casting for about 45 years now and find dipper casting is much superior to using a bottom pour. Back in the 80s, I think, I desided to try using a gravity feed pot. I bought the Lyman pot and used it a few years and went back to dipping.

The quality of the dipper-cast bullets is much better than the bottom pour bullets.

The surface of the bottom-pour bullets was speckeled with crud that was entrained in the melt, and it is impossible to get rid of the crud. I sold the bottom pour pot.

I use the RCBS dipper because it holds about 75% more melt than the Lyman dipper.

Jim

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CB posted this 04 May 2008

I did the same thing, plugged the bottom pour spout on my Lee 20# pot. I only cast single and double cavity molds.   I only cast for competition.   If I was casting 4 and 6 cavity gang molds and want to throw 2,000 CBs down range range every week, I'd probably use a BP pot.  I too get better quality CBs from ladle pouring.....................Dan

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454PB posted this 04 May 2008

Yeah, the dipper versus the bottom pour debate will always rage. Like most long time casters, I used a dipper for the first few years. As I gathered more guns and moulds, dipping became too slow for me. I bought one of the Lee bottom pour pots when they first came out. It took a lot of frustration and determination, but I finally got to the point where my bottom poured bullets where as good as my dipper poured, and production increased dramatically.

 

Some guys will not have the patience to get to that point, or they just flat prefer the dipper. I still use mine on occasion for small batches of bullets. Being left handed, all my dippers have the handles reversed. That's easy with the RCBS, but requires brazing on the old Lymans.

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jkingrph posted this 14 May 2008

I learned to cast with a dipper back in the '60's when in college.  First time or two I actually used charcoal in a bar-b-que pit for heat source, theb got a little gas hot plate.  Later I tried a Lyman bottom pour but never could get the spout to stop leaking,  I am now back to dippers.  I like Lyman dippers probably because that was the first I tried, although I do make a larger wooden handle so it does not get so hot.  For some of my very large bullets I have some Rowell ladles which work quite well.  I now use a plumbers furnace as wel do not have natural gas and generally melt 20-30 pounds  of alloy at at time to keep temps more constant.

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Dale53 posted this 11 August 2008

I can cast equally well whether dipper or bottom pour. However, I have cast several HUNDRED THOUSAND bullets (no typo) and as is often the case, the more you do the more you learn.

I get MUCH better production out of bottom pour and will not willingly go back to dippers.

But that's just me...

Dale53

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JeffinNZ posted this 11 August 2008

Ladle convertee here.  They don't drip............  :P

Cheers from New Zealand

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303PV posted this 12 August 2008

I had a Lee production pot IV. I was not happy with it because of the dripping and the spout also clogged sometimes. I guess it was too complicated for me.

I have ordered an electric furnace and a Rowell ladle now from  http://www.theantimonyman.com/index.htm>http://www.theantimonyman.com/index.htm

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sundog posted this 12 August 2008

Dippers and ladles here.  I've never bottom poured, and doubt that I ever will.  I've been casting since early 70s.

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KenK posted this 12 August 2008

My dad used a little cast iron skillet on a coleman stove for all his casting and that is how he taught us to do it.

When we were teenagers my brother and I bought a bottom pour electric pot (we were going to show the old man how it was done) and we could never get that thing to work right.  No doubt it was because we didn't have a clue what we were doing.

When I got back into casting a few years ago I remembered that fiasco and use nothing but a ladle now.

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w30wcf posted this 12 August 2008

I have 2 RCBS 20# pots and 1 Lee Production Pot.  I have found that with the RCBS pots I can make bullets as good using the bottom pour feature as I can with the ladle.:D  The only place that I have found that the ladle will give better results is with 400 + gr. .45-70 bullets.

Merrill Martin wrote an article some years back in Precision Shooting about making 250 Match Grade bullets/hr using a bottom pour pot.  He controlled the temp of the mold as well as the furnace. :dude: 

w30wcf

 

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bfrshooter posted this 30 August 2008

I have used a dipper for 53 years! :dude:I tried all kinds of bottom pour stuff and found they can't equal the large commercial equipment.

The work and effort to reliably keep perfect boolits coming from the bottom spout is not worth it. A tiny bit of slag will suddenly cause bad boolits so you need to poke around in the hole with a wire. By the time it is clear for a good steam again, the mold will cool off. Half the time it is a drip-o-matic too.

The ladle will also get some blockage of the hole but all it takes is to empty it and turn it upside down and tap the crud out, wipe the nose and go.

Then every mold will not work with the bottom pour. Every mold needs a different distance from the spout or a different pour sequence so you need to keep a log.  You need to watch every pour too, what a waste of time in my opinion.  I would rather have 100 perfect boolits then 10,000 scrubs.

Perfect ladle pouring is so easy to learn and so good I never weigh a single boolit. My first to my last are all perfect and only if I screw up does one have to go back in the pot. I recently cast 300 without a single reject.

All of my pots are plugged!

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snuffy posted this 01 September 2008

I do both. I have 4 pots, a saeco melter 20#, a lee pro-4-20, a lee production 10# and a lee ladle melter. I use the pro 20 most of the time for running my 6 banger lee's for handgun boolits. I also do some 2 cav lee and Lyman molds with it. The old production pot, is on loan to a shooting buddy I mentored into casting. The saeco has no thermostat, it simply melts lead. Some day i'll stick my thermometer in it to see what it tops off at.

I do use my Lyman bottom pour dipper for the big 45 cal molds. It seems that I can't get the lead into them fast enough to get good boolits. They're all lee alum. molds. I love to load those big boolits into those hugh 45/70 starline nickle cases, then hear the boom WHACK  when they hit the target!:D I also use the dipper when making the lee and Lyman shotgun slugs.

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