45-70 reloading

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  • Last Post 24 May 2010
maq posted this 27 May 2008

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum. 

I have recently purchased an 1884 trapdoor and I'm trying to be gentle with it.  I read, “just filler up with powder, compress the load and let her fly", but, I want to know,  which black powder,  2fg or 3fg??  Pyrodex or black powder??, and what psi am I generating...  what bhn is best for a trapdoor cast??   I'm sure that the originals used pure lead.  Is that what I should use.   Is there information somewhere on black powder psi, like there is for smokeless??  I'm anxious to get started but I need a little help.  I've tried to look, but I just can't find .....

Thanks everyone,  Maq

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CB posted this 27 May 2008

Hi Maq,

For a Trapdoor I'd use 2F.  The other rifle powder 3F is for small bore rifles and most ml pistols.  You don't want to just fill the case, but use a pour measure or a blackpowder dispencer such as Lyman's. Measuring will give you a constant amount everytime for load control, constant velocity and accuracy.  No need for magnum primers. Modern bp is easily ignited if kept dry.

You don't necessarily need to compress the load, but rule #1 is to never leave an air gap over black powder in a cartridge or in a muzzleloader. Could be dangerous. You can use a filler without filling the whole case. Most popular is a fiber wad made for the purpose. I've used cornmeal and dacron before.

I don't know about any pressure tables etc. I have always used Lyman reloading manuals and they have a Blackpowder Reloading manual I'd think would be a great help. I've bought bpcr supplies from this company before:  http://www.buffaloarms.com/   >http://www.buffaloarms.com/  

I'm no expert, but this is the bp steps I go by. You ought to get some other replies from the other guys who do a lot more bp shooting than I...............Dan

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Mnshooter posted this 27 May 2008

The Lee hollowbase bullet mold is recommended for trapdoors by some as it helps to match the varying bore diameters.  Use BP lubes such as SPG or Lyman Gold.  You can finger lube if you use as cast which is often done.  The Trap door had two loads, one with 70 grains for the rifle and one with 55 for the carbine as the troops found the 70 grain load to kick too much in the lighter carbine.  Most use Fed 205 Mag (the large rifle magnum primers) with Goex powders.  A lot of folks like the Swiss if you can get it.  If the fouling is hard at the muzzle end of the barrel and your accuracy isn't too great you are not getting enough lube and should try different lube or a cookie.  Compress before you load the bullet.  Winchester cases have more capacity than Rem or Fed.  Have fun good shooting.

Mnshooter

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R. Dupraz posted this 27 May 2008

mag:

I have a nice old "73” infantry rifle that I shoot only once  in a while  because the front sight seems to disappear quite often. It's quite a hoot and the accuracy is surprising with black and lead.

The best advice I can give regarding the trapdoor, is too get a copy of “Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine” by J. S. and Pat Wolf.

Wolf's Western Traders

30516 Erin Dr.

Lacombe, LA 70445

(985) 882-3401

I think you can also get the book from Buff Arms and possibly the Shiloh Rifle Co. of

Big Timber, Mt.

This book is well worth the price because the authors explain how to load and what to use in order to make the trapdoor shoot as it was originally intended. And how to load so that it will shoot to the sights. It is probably the last word in loading for the original Springfields.

RD

 

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maq posted this 28 May 2008

Thanks everyone, I'll take your adice and load carefully.  I'll get the book by wolf first to start off with and go from there.  I'm really looking forward to having fun with this trapdoor.  Maq  2fg, wheel weight lead, no air, fed primers...spg, lyman gold lube.... got it... tnx everyone....

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bfrshooter posted this 23 October 2008

You will not get enough powder in the case to worry about. We have gone to 74 gr's of Swiss FFFG in the 45-70 with over 500 gr boolits.

Do not be afraid to compress Swiss, it loves it. We use paper wads cut from a manila envelope over the powder just to aid compression but you don't really need a wad. Some use LDPE or other wads.

The first thing to do is to slug the barrel to see what the groove to groove is.

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Harp posted this 28 January 2010

Give some consideration to 1to20 alloy. At the lower velocities and presures of black powder wheel weights may not bump up and fill the bore,  leaving you with leading and accuracy loss. I believe that Wolf mentions 1to15 produced at the armory for the trap door. I shoot the 1874 model trap door with a modern insert because it was a lamp in it's former life and I had it lined to .450 bore and .458 groove. Good shooter with the Lee 405 hollow base. The Lyman 457193 is very good also and for long range the 457125 515 grain is very good.

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shjoe posted this 29 January 2010

i would also recomend Wolf's book on reloading the 45/70. the best $30 you will spend on your rifle. i shoot the 55gr 2Fg carbine load with well lubed 405gr cast bullet over a 45 cal greased wonder wad, to assist in compressing the load. i drill out the primer hole to about .096 for better ignition. i bring a mixture of water and murphys oil soap in a spray bottle to swab the bore and flush/rinse out the cases at the range for a quick and dirty cleaning prior to a more thorough cleaning at home. the water will disolve the salt residues and the murphys will leave a light protective film in the barrel until i can properly clean and lube everything when i get home. also important to clean BP cases well to extend their service life. best, john

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Harp posted this 13 April 2010

I've been trying 7 grains of 4759 and 54 grains of 2fg and WLRM primer, Starline case .081primer hole. The bullet is a Lyman 457193 no wad, just compress the powder to get .570 bullet seating depth.  Shot a .75” 5 shot group.  No cleaning till the last round.  I will try it again and if it does that good I will stop at that for mid range. Shiloh number Three Sporter with MVA tang sight and standard front blade. 

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Aggie Desperado posted this 24 April 2010

Maq,

A couple of other suggestions: 1. You will get much better results and no leading with a soft bullet alloy Between 20:1 and 40:1 lead/tin. The soft alloy will obturate to fill the bore and rifling better. The soft lube (SPG, etc.) will keep the fouling soft 2. With soft bullets, you may get deformation of the bullet when using it to compress the powder during seating. Use a bullet compression die to compress the powder before seating the bullet. Buffalo Arms is a great source for all black powder supplies like this. 3. Ballistol is a great product for cleaning and lubricating BP firearms. Most folks dilute it 10:1 with water. Use it to clean the bore, wipe down the
gun and stock, etc. The water dissolves the BP residue and when it evaporates the oil is left behind to provide corrosion protection.

Using these methods, my BP guns are much easier to clean and maintain than those that use smokeless powder. I seldom need more than 3 or 4 patches to clean a rifle or pistol.

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Daryl S posted this 24 May 2010

My BP ctg. guns like either straight WW or up to a WW/pure lead, 50/50 mix. Either/or is just fine or target or hunting. I've driven .50 cal 540gr. bullets of 50/50 WW/pure alloy to 1,900fps (smokeless powder) without leading and with excellent, under 2moa accuracy - open irons.

I've found my rifles shoot best if the bullet is a push fit into a fired case - no sizing needed. I use a separate die to seat the wad and compress the powder at the same time. Never compress the powder with a bullet. That will/can deform the softer bullet alloys.

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