milk jug gas checks

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  • Last Post 27 June 2008
jhalcott posted this 12 June 2008

 I have read about guys using a circle cut from a MILK container between the powder and bullet. From what I read they use an old case and hammer the circles out by hand. This is a chore! I tried to make 100 of them and got less than 50 before the case gave up. My questions are, Do they use plastic gallon milk jugs or waxy cardboard material like the 1/2 gallon cartons are made of?. Do you have to use enough powder (or circles) to fill a case, leaving no air space between powder and bullet?

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CB posted this 12 June 2008

I think you are referring to what is now called an over powder wad.

I do not know what material they used back then, but there is a contingent of us that use type 1 pvc plastic .062 thick now days.

We also use a wad punch made by a fellow named Fred Cornell. It fits in a standard 7/8 - 14 press and punches wads very easily, I have several. There is a link on the CBA links page with Freds name, address and phone number. He is very prompt in getting the punch out to you.

As for the plastic, I get mine from small-parts.com, it comes in 1'x2' pieces.

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jhalcott posted this 15 June 2008

I'm looking for a cheap replacement for the near $30.00  gas check. This idea SEEMED to be one way of getting there. If the “check” has to be compressed between the powder and bullet , it will not work in bottle necked rifle loads. I'm shooting from 1600 to 2000 fps in the Whelen and 30-06. These charges will never be enough to compress the wad. I REALLY don't want to go to fillers like cream of wheat.

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JeffinNZ posted this 15 June 2008

There is a cheap replacement for gas checks.  It's called a plain base bullet.  Actually, it is surprising how fast you can drive them.

In my .38/303 I am pushing a plain base, 300gr BHN 10, bullet at just shy of 1700fps over a full case of W748.  I have a heavy card wad (0.060) under the bullet.  Accuracy is phenomenal.  This is 100 metres/110 yards.

Cheers from New Zealand

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jhalcott posted this 16 June 2008

 Very good shooting ! What bullet and load is reccommended for the 30-06 and .308?

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sniper posted this 23 June 2008

I read somewhere that gas check bullets shoot very well without the checks. I guess that depends upon your gun,  but it couldn't hurt to try it a time or two. 

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jhalcott posted this 23 June 2008

I rarely use a bullet designed for a check with out one. I have tried it with some 45-70 bullets and got some gas cutting and leading. The only time it worked(no gas check) was when I paper patched some small diameter (.454") for the 45-70 I did the same thing with some Teflon bullets ,and accuracy was better with the checks. I'm afraid of cereal fillers. A friend of my grand dad had a gun blow up when he was using cream of wheat as a filler. MAYBE it was NOT the C.O.W., but I was there when it blew.!

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Pepe Ray posted this 24 June 2008

 

There is nothing in any of the normally used fillers to cause a “blow up". Such mishaps are due solely to flawed loading techniques.

Introducing fillers to reloads requires as much study as a beginner needs when first entering the reloading hobby. Many times questions about filler use is given an answer with a cavalier attitude, implying simplicity.  WRONG!!! 

Blaming “blow ups” on fillers is exactly the same as blaming shooting deaths on firearms.

Pepe Ray

Only in His name.

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jhalcott posted this 24 June 2008

  I unerstand that PePe, But the impression on MY young mind was/is strong. I have used pillow stuffing with out worrying about a “blow up".Cereal fillers just  give me the willies! I didn't mean to imply that those fillers ARE dangerous,just they aren't MY cup of tea!

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Pepe Ray posted this 25 June 2008

A healthy dose of “respect” is in order until you/we have completed our studies. Personally, I've got a long way to go before I give direction from my own experiences.  I have ,on occasion, quoted Ross Siefreid on the subject. Some day someone will publish a comprehensive essay that will benefit all of us who wish to plunge into the pool. ---- ----I hope.

Pepe Ray

Only in His name.

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CB posted this 25 June 2008

I know that Joe Brennan covers this subject in the latest edition of his assembled book on cast bullets. I will see if I can dig up the link for you to help provide some additional assistance.

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Pepe Ray posted this 25 June 2008

Thank you,

I have Joe's book. It's a good reference. Arguably, a great book. The section on fillers and wads is too incomplete to satisfy many questions. IMHO he should have emphasized the “Caution” aspect more.

There may be a complete analysis of the 'black art' ,but I have not seen it. The best we can do, at this time, is to allow only that much that has been recorded of black powder cartridges w/fillers or wads. Even at that one must exclude the early bottle necks as the 32WS and 303Brit etc.

I applaud and support those who would experiment and maintain data but condemn those who give advice publicly until such time as a reasonable consensus can be established.

Please understand. I intend to experiment with F&W but feel that most re loaders take it too lightly.    Carry on.

Pepe Ray

Only in His name.

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jhalcott posted this 25 June 2008

Pepe ray, HOW do we get a consensus if we ALL operate in a vacuum? Any experimentation is questionable and subject to interpretation. We are resposible for OUR safety and MUST determine what we doing the safest way. All of us have heard stories about loading “mishaps” and formed opinions from them.

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Ed Harris posted this 27 June 2008

sniper wrote: I read somewhere that gas check bullets shoot very well without the checks. I guess that depends upon your gun,  but it couldn't hurt to try it a time or two.  I use gascheck design bullets without the GC all the time and they work just fine for light loads up to about 1400 fps.  Most of the time I use gallery loads of fast burning pistol or shotshell powder, but if you want something which shoots a bit flatter, in a smooth barrel,  using a powder a bit on the slow side for a plainbased load, you may be able to go a bit faster. 

In small capacity (for a rifle) straight-wall cases, such as using the .357 Magnum or .32 H&R Mag in a single-shot rifle, a nominal caseful of 4198 or RL-7 gives fine results with plainbased bullets without a wad and will get you over 1400 fps. 

In a smooth, well conditioned barrel you can equal the grouping of military ball ammunition at 1400-1700 fps in military bolt rifles using carefully prepared plainbased bullets in the .303 British, .30-40 Krag and .30-'06.

Use as large a bullet as chambers without resistance and extracts freely without de-bulleting.  I size to .312 in my 03A3. .313 for my Krag and .315 for my .303 Brit.

Cast plainbased bullets no harder than wheelweights. Fill the lube grooves with a soft lube such as 50-50 Alox-beeswax, then also overcoat the entire bullet lightly with Lee Liquid Alox.  Try 11 grs. of #2400,  14 grs. of 4227, 16 grs. of 4198 or 18 grs. of RL-7 in any nominal .30 cal. military rifle starters.  Use WLR primers.

Don't start with a clean, dry bore, but thoroughly decopper with Sweets, polish well with JB paste, then clean well with Ed's Red to remove all the JB paste residue and loosened old gunk. Then take a clean patch wet with Lee Liquid Alox, wipe the bore five times, and then run ONE dry patch through the bore to remove the excess LLA.

You are now ready to shoot!  

Shooting from a clean, lightly lubricated bore reduces the risk of leading by firing that first shot in a pristine dry bore. 

If groups open, up push a wet patch of ER through the bore, inspect the patch for  lead, and if so, wet-brush, wet-patch and repeat the whole process, adjusting the load is necessary.

Once you have a tweaked load which works and your bore is conditioned, you should be able to get 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards with iron sights or in proportion to 200. You won't need to thoroughly clean, but just leave the bore lightly wet with ER, then run a single dry patch through the conditioned bore and you should be ready to shoot again. Like like your .22 match rifle in the old days.

I shoot very few gaschecked loads anymore. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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