I am loading for a Marlin 336 CS 30-30 with Microgroove barrel.Its been about 10 years since I played with one like it.It seems like my last one preferred rather big(.312) bullets.I cannot chamber anything over .310 in this chamber.I haven't shot it yet,but was surprised by the “tight” neck in the rifle.Are others similar to mine?
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I am loading for a Marlin 336 CS 30-30 with Microgroove barrel.Its been about 10 years since I played with one like it.It seems like my last one preferred rather big(.312) bullets.I cannot chamber anything over .310 in this chamber.I haven't shot it yet,but was surprised by the “tight” neck in the rifle.Are others similar to mine?
George
Many are. You will need to cast the chamber, but .330-.332 is normal for a .30-30. That limits you to .310 bullets unless you turn necks VERY thin, less than 0.010 which makes them too fragile to be practical. Use a .32 H&R Mag. reamer and run it in just enough to enlarge the neck to .337-.339 and rethroat the existing forcing SAAMI cone. That enables .313 bullets and 0.012 case neck wall thickness.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Use a .32 H&R Mag. reamer and run it in just enough to enlarge the neck to .337-.339 and rethroat the existing forcing SAAMI cone.
Thanks.
I'll shoot it tomarrow to see if it works with the .309+ pills I have loaded.I used “real primers” this time instead of my special Inert ones<G>I have a 1.5 throater in my greasy mits.Unless the throat is worn it seems to be beter than most.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Ok how did it shoot? lol Just very curious. Been watching this thread with much interest. Jim
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Ok how did it shoot?
With a load of 10.0 of Unique and the Lyman 311466 it shoots 2” for 5 at best at 100 yards.The worst groups are 2-1/2".Sometimes 4 of the 5 are into 1.5” but the one shot never seems to land in the cluster and lands high or low.There is a definite tendency towards vertical in the groups especially as the gun warms up.(its been 90-100 during the range sessions).I am not excited about the accuracy but not convinced the Microgroove is hurting anything.Its acting more like a bedding issue.I also shot the RCBS 180 FN and accuracy was the same as above.I am going back to 13-15g 2400 as I have more confidence in the 30-30 as I have used it more.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Thanks so much. Ever try 13gr of bluedot. I have been playing with it a lot lately. I havent been to the range yet. Just from shooting in the yard my marlin seems to like it. I have tried it with 150 and 170gr jacketed bullets. Both are real good coke can loads.lol
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Thanks so much. Ever try 13gr of bluedot. I have been playing with it a lot lately. I havent been to the range yet. Just from shooting in the yard my marlin seems to like it. I have tried it with 150 and 170gr jacketed bullets. Both are real good coke can loads.lol
Shame on you for shooting jacketed bullets in a 30-30.Frank Marshall just did a double backflip in his grave<G>
I have alot of Bluedot,but only have shot it in the '06 and 44 mag.I'll try it next time out in the 30-30.I plan to shoot plainbase plinker loads in the Marlin and will try the SAECO #630 next time out.It is a 140g FP that does well in most 30-30's I try it in.
I forgot to mention the SAECO #315 shot 6” groups in the Marlin.A big surprise as it shoots well in most 30's I try it in.Maybe microgroove rifling doest like tapered bullets??
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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The guy that I used to get my cast bullets from has since passed on. I have been watching and waiting to see what would be the best bullet to use in my 30-30.
So far I like the Lyman 311041 and the ranch dog TLC311-165-RF. From what I've read the ranchdog likes the microgroove a lot. I will post the article that I got the load from. I hope you will enjoy playing with it as much as I have.
The original blue dot load came from THR forum it is as follows.
Blue Dot Range Report: 30/30 Winchester
Case: Remington
Primer: Fed 210
Bullets: Winchester 110 gr RN, Hornady 170 grain FN
110 grain RN:
7grs: 1162 fps 13grs: 1858 fps 8grs: 1266 fps 14grs: 1924 fps 9grs: 1358 fps 15grs: 2087 fps 10grs: 1542 fps 16grs: 2143 fps 11grs: 1706 fps 17grs: 2244 fps 12grs: 1720 fps 18grs: 2322 fps
170 grains Flat Nose
7grs: 1009 fps 12grs: 1473 fps 8grs: 1078 fps 13grs: 1555 fps 9grs: 1153 fps 14grs: 1597 fps 10grs: 1277 fps 15grs: 1685 fps 11grs: 1389 fps
Notes:
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ranch dog TLC311-165-RF
It looks like a good bullet,i peeked at it on his site.If I could have it in a 6-cavity i would buy one.For my plinking rifles I like 4 or more cavities so I don't have to spend all week to cast my “summers fun” bullets.I'll report on the Blue Dot loads if I can get out this Wednesday.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Ever try 13gr of bluedot. I have been playing with it a lot lately.
I shot the 13.0 g Blue Dot load (12.9 is where the measure ended up)with the RCBS 180FN.The first two groups at 100 were over 3” then the barrel (or the shooter)"settled” and it grouped 5 into 1.5".I moved to 200 and shot a 3” 5 shot group.I had 4 shots left so I went back to 100 and the last 4 went into 1".All of this was in 90 deg weather with a HOT barrel.I will do a re shoot,but the load appears good .My 31466 with 10.0 of Unique shot about the same. Included a picture of the target at 200 yds.The upper is the 311466 and Unique.The lower is the 12.9 of BD.The separate paper low left if the 311466/Unique and it 2-3/4".I would say this microgroove barrel seems to present no problems at all with cast.I don't think I should expect groups much smaller with a levergun 30-30 and a 4X scope regardless of rifling type.
The loads-
RCBS 180FN, lino/ww,12.9 B.D., sized in Lee die to .309, Jakes NRA ,CCI 200 Primer
311466 4-cavity, lino/ww, 10.0 Unique,sized in Lee die to .309, Jakes NRA ,CCI 200 Primer
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Best 100 yd group of the day.31466 and 10.0 of Unique.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Whoa!! I knew bd shot good in my rifle but I had no idea. I've gotta put mine on paper. Thanks. How do you like that heavy recoil? lol Good shooting!!! Now I'm looking for a load using IMR-PB. Does the quest ever end?lol
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Does the quest ever end?lol
NO
I will be trying Blue Dot in Reduced for my plainbase 30-30 loads now.I have been using 700X and 2400 with decent results.
Now I'm looking for a load using IMR-PB
I would think PB should work fine in the 30-30.I shot mine up in a 9mm years back and never bought anymore.I shoot whatever I can scrounge from shot shell loaders estate sales and make in work in some way or another in my rifles.Morbid, but thats how I got alot of my shotshell type powders.<G>
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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That's odd. This morning I had a guy ask me if I wanted some brass, lead shot and powder. Someone had given him a press(he already gave it away, I asked) and this other stuff. I can use the brass, I can melt down the shot, but the powder scares me. I haven't gone by to pick it up yet. He said the powder was in a bag??? It will make good fertilizer. Oh, one more thing I found a 30-30 load using AAC-#9 last night but I lost it ever use it? I'll have to put a 30 WCF load book together using nothing but shotgun and pistol powders.
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Oh, one more thing I found a 30-30 load using AAC-#9 last night but I lost it ever use it?
I have used 15.0 g of it with 180 grainers in my 30-30 Savage 99.It did well.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Someone gave me this link. What do you think?
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Quote from the link-
"While working on our CAS loads, multiple times it was suggested we look at IMR 4227, H4227, I and H 4198 and #2400. We did, and found them each vastly inferior to the double base disc pistol powders. “
I would argue this statement .I think he was shooting plainbase commercial cast hard bullets although i didn't read though it carefully yet.He may have had better luck with faster pistol powders then? But don't think those mentioned above are poor for the 30-30!! And his 2400 loads for the 30-06 he shoots big groups with are one of my favorites(10-12g) With one commercial cast bullet of one size i don't think he can make any “firm” statements on cast bullet loading.It only applied to that one bullet.His results were deatiled though.
I hope others here read the link and give input.This is just my take on the little I read.I am sure Ed Harris,Dan Willems,Wally Enga,Pat I etc.. and the more experienced and technical minded guys here could dissect it better.I am a simpleton.
I use a few “recipes” that cover my cast 30-30 loads(and alot of other 30 calibers as well).I use 7.0 of 700X for plainbase bullet of 150-180,10.0 of Unigue for same weight GC bullets,and my favorite load is 12-15g of 2400 with 140-200g GC bullets.I use the 2400 load most of the time.I think about any “Bullseye speed” to “2400 speed" powders work about the same.Burn what you got.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I posted the same link in another thread. Ed Harris just said the 30-06 Data was “spot on” I thought it looked fishy. I copied and posted the same question on several other sites. So far when I ask a question the people on this site give the best responses. I am going to give it a few days and post links so everyone can see how their forum did. I really do appreciate how friendly and helpful the people on this site are. Jim
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I posted the same link in another thread. Ed Harris just said the 30-06 Data was “spot on” I thought it looked fishy. I copied and posted the same question on several other sites. So far when I ask a question the people on this site give the best responses. I am going to give it a few days and post links so everyone can see how their forum did. I really do appreciate how friendly and helpful the people on this site are. Jim
The loads are good i think,but his results with 2400 were not as good as I would have expected in the 30-06.
I reread it and find the accuracy is for one 10 shot group(per load) with “called” flyers omitted.But it mentions not distance they shot. 25,50, or 100 yards?
I found it,it was all at 50 yards.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Your not going to believe this. I never thought about looking here for a Blue Dot load.
There it is plain as day.
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Funny, I never even looked to Alliant for cast bullet data for rifles.They seem to be giving good load info.
Thanks for the info and link!
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Well here is some more.
H380 26 gr...........
H335 26 gr............
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They look like good hunting loads.For the loads in the 1400 fps range i use faster powders like 2400 and Unique as I only have to use 1/2 the amount of the slow stuff.I am cheap bas*d.
I am curious why he shot 3 shot groups.I like to fire at least 5 shot group and 10 shot'ers for “long haul” hot barrel plink-out reliability testing.
Did you shoot anyof the bullets i sentyou yet?? I wouldnt drive the little SAECO#630 PB with those hotter laods.Up to about 1350 you should be OK with powders like 2400,red-dot Unique etc...
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I played “chase the can” in the backyard with some of the 140 grainers. loaded with 8gr of Russian shotgun powder they shot good. I don't have a range to go to so I play around here and on the farm, when I can get the cows, ponies, mules and goats to get out of the way. lol I really appreciate that. Jim
:dude:
Oh by the way a buddy of mine has been eyeballing those 180gr bullets. I have all these other bullets to choose from and he keeps asking about them. I told him they were MINE!!! lol I am keeping them for desert.
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I played “chase the can” in the backyard with some of the 140 grainers. loaded with 8gr of Russian shotgun powder they shot good. I don't have a range to go to so I play around here and on the farm, when I can get the cows, ponies, mules and goats to get out of the way. lol I really appreciate that. Jim
:dude:
Oh by the way a buddy of mine has been eyeballing those 180gr bullets. I have all these other bullets to choose from and he keeps asking about them. I told him they were MINE!!! lol I am keeping them for desert.
I also throw about any pistol type powder in the 30-30 with the bullet.It always seems to do good 'nuff for plinking.I loaded a bunch with a Welsh 150 PB flat-nose for clearing out the ground squirrels by the cabin.They are starting to dig under the cabins skirting.The kids like to watch them run around,but they have gone too far.My 7 yr old boy doesnt want me to shoot them but my 5 yr old girl said she wants me to “blow the guts out of one” for her.(her words not mine) My little sweetie is cold blooded.She got a hefty dose of the Italian blood from my moms side.
George Damron
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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George your alright. I like a cold blooded killer.lol A man's got to know his limits. She sounds like Peggy(my daughter) when she was little. I wish I could draw some squirrels in here, but my cat gets them before I can. I eat mine so I just use a pellet rifle. Jim
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"but my cat gets them before I can. I eat mine so I just use a pellet rifle. Jim" Your talking squirrels not cats right :)
I eat the the Western Grey(tree squirrel) ,but not the ground variety.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I loaded up some of the 308241's. I used 7gr of Red Dot. One word SWWEEEETTTT!!!
Gotta get me some more of them. Would you be interested in a low mileage first born child? lol :D
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Next session with the 7-cavity,I'll save you a few more.Glad you liked them.Lyman should offer this design again(in a 4 cavity).It works well for me and everybody else i know that owns one.
George Damron
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Alliant finally has their new load data up and going and I am very disappointed. They removed the 30-30 Blue Dot and 2400 load data.
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Hey George look at this. I replied to Alliant in their feedback section and this is their response.
We never had any Blue Dot data for the 30/30, at least in the last 12 years that I have been here. What lead bullet are you shooting?
Ben Amonette Consumer Service Manager Alliant Powder Company
WHAT!!!! Were we hallucinating? This is very odd. I'm glad I'm not a conspiracy nut.
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We never had any Blue Dot data for the 30/30, at least in the last 12 years that I have been here. What lead bullet are you shooting?
Is he going to get data for you ?
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I guess. I told him I was shooting 172 gr GC bullets and 150gr PB bullets. George didn't they have 13 gr of Blue Dot and a 150 gr cast bullet recipe at that link I posted? Now I'm wondering.
Well. He asked me if I had ever used RL-7. I told him I was looking for data in the 1200-1700 fps range.
This is what he sent. All in all he was very friendly. I still don't like the fact that they took the 30-30 silhouette loads off, but what ya gonna do. Right?
I'll give him an A for effort.
PS: He finally found the silhouette load I was talking about. 13gr of Bluedot under a 152gr cast bullet.
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Rather than starting a new thread for this, I will post it here. This goes along with a conversation we(George and I) had a while back. I love my 30-30 and this is one of my favorite threads.
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Those loads look pretty good.I have had good luck with R-7 and full power loads and Unigue in the 10g range also works.Still the 13 of B- Dot has proven to be a fine load.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I am mounting a scope on my rifle. I don't know if I will leave it on or not. I will let you know what kind of groups I get. The reason for the scope is so I can see the target at 100 yards. Let me know where to send that lead. If you run across a nice affordable Lyman 308241 mold let me know. I thought about getting a 311291 mold and milling the gas check section off. I talked to a guy at cast boolits and he said he had brought up the subject of a group by on the 308241 several times but nobody seemed interested. I don't get it. Wow I crammed four post into one. I hope this isn't too confusing. Jim
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I found a thread posted by sundog on another forum. He loaded very heavy(to me) charges of BD under the 311041. The hottest load was 23gr. He said it was sticky on extraction. He didn't say what velocity he got with that load. He did however post Three other loads. They are as follows.
17.0gr 1880fps 18.0gr 1946fps 19.0gr 2020fps
These were all loaded in a 1950's vintage '94 Winchester. His last comment on them was “these loads really shoot good, and they are clean." The powder was at least ten years old. The thread was posted in December 2005. I am wondering how high the pressure was in the first round. He said the fireball burned orange. I wonder if someone really smart would know. ( hint to ED Harris lol)
I am interested in the Alliant 410 loads you spoke of as well sundog. I hope you don't mind me posting this. Do you still load your 30-30 with BD?
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I am still loading 13.0 of BD in my 30-30 .I will shoot my hunting bullet(SAECO #307 HP) this weekend and see how it goes.I may work up a bit over the chronograph to get about 1800.I don't think I'd go as high as he did,maybe 16.0 max!!I hope to luck into a deer at my place next weekend.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I thought about getting a 311291 mold and milling the gas check section off.
Shoots fine as is without the check i would'nt bother to mill it off.Still the308241 is a dandy.One just sold on Ebay for $30,pretty good deal i think.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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I cant believe I missed that. Now I feel sick. Have you chronied the BD load yet? I don't have the velocity on it. Knowing me I posted it myself somewhere and just cant find it.
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I did chrono the load and it was going 1550 (ish).I dont remember exactly though.I have been happy with 10.0 of Unique lately with the an NEI copy of the 31141.
George
"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!
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Yes yes yes!!! That will be my buddy's hunting load then. Thanks!!! I thought it was in that range but was unsure. I'll also let him try 10.0gr of Russianique under the 31141. He has bad rheumatoid arthritis and he can only stand to shoot once a week. Maybe with light recoil like that he will be able to hunt more than once a week. I also loaded some 429421's up for his 44 mag trapper.
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That's odd. This morning I had a guy ask me if I wanted some brass, lead shot and powder. Someone had given him a press(he already gave it away, I asked) and this other stuff. I can use the brass, I can melt down the shot, but the powder scares me. I haven't gone by to pick it up yet. He said the powder was in a bag??? It will make good fertilizer. Oh, one more thing I found a 30-30 load using AAC-#9 last night but I lost it ever use it? I'll have to put a 30 WCF load book together using nothing but shotgun and pistol powders.
I have a load I have been experimenting with . 1.0 cc od WC820 - .30-30 - 165 - 18 grain cast bullets . WC820 is said to be ~ to AA #9 .
God bless Wyr
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Is that 18.0gr of AAC-#9/WC-820 under a 165gr cast bullet in a 30-30?
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Is that 18.0gr of AAC-#9/WC-820 under a 165gr cast bullet in a 30-30?
Please forgive my poor spelling and typing . Post was before breakfast / coffee . :-(
1.0 cc of WC820 , best I remember , that is around 14 + - grains with the Lee dipper . This was shot in both a Marlin & a Winny .30-30 . 165 to 180 grain home cast bullets . This was a .303 Brit / 7.62 x 54R Russian mold , bullets sized to about .310” .
Check out the link
http://www.castbullet.com/reload/wc820.htm
God bless Wyr
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Thanks. I want to try out some AAC-#7 in my 30-30. I have some load data but I don't know if I need to use wadding or not. I'll also keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on the WC820.
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Thanks. I want to try out some AAC-#7 in my 30-30. I have some load data but I don't know if I need to use wadding or not. I'll also keep my eyes peeled for a good deal on the WC820.
WC820 is government surplus powder .
I do not use wadding . The people that do , use a tiny bit of toilet paper or a tiny bit of quilt stuffing .
God bless Wyr
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That's odd. This morning I had a guy ask me if I wanted some brass, lead shot and powder. Someone had given him a press(he already gave it away, I asked) and this other stuff. I can use the brass, I can melt down the shot, but the powder scares me. I haven't gone by to pick it up yet. He said the powder was in a bag??? It will make good fertilizer. Oh, one more thing I found a 30-30 load using AAC-#9 last night but I lost it ever use it? I'll have to put a 30 WCF load book together using nothing but shotgun and pistol powders.
AA # 9 ?
I have been using 1.00 cc of WC820 and 180 ~ grain cast in .30-30 . Also useing it in .357 & .44 Mag .
WC820 is said to be ~ to H110 and AA # 9 .
But I am running out of WC820 , so I have some AA # 9 on order .
Anyone use WC846 ( ~ Ball-C ) with cast , in .30-30 ?
God bless Wyr
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Wyr, I have been shooting 10.5 gr of 2400. and having some success with commercial 165 gr flatnose plain base. Waiting on a mold. I am going to try a Lee tumble lube design if it works out probably get a ranch dog mold. It seems everything out there is backordered.
Bob D
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BallC(2) or WC846 work fine in the .30-30 with GC bullets in full loads. Try 25 grs. to start, up to about 30 grs. maximum with BHN12 or harder alloy and #311291 or #31141. I use 28 grs. with RCBS 30-180FN which weighs 188 grains in my alloy and approximates the .303 Savage.
It's important to start on the low end because lots of surplus powder vary in burning rate. Faster lots of WC844/WC846 burn like IMR-4475, IMR-8208, H322 or RL-7 and the slower ones are closer to W748.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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BallC(2) or WC846 work fine in the .30-30 with GC bullets in full loads. Try 25 grs. to start, up to about 30 grs. maximum with BHN12 or harder alloy and #311291 or #31141. I use 28 grs. with RCBS 30-180FN which weighs 188 grains in my alloy and approximates the .303 Savage.
It's important to start on the low end because lots of surplus powder vary in burning rate. Faster lots of WC844/WC846 burn like IMR-4475, IMR-8208, H322 or RL-7 and the slower ones are closer to W748.
I already have a few loaded w/ 29 grains .
May load a few w/ 25 . 26 . 27 . 28 grains and start that way ?
My lot of surplus 4895 seems hotter than the commercial data . I have been using that for .30-06 & 7.62 NATO for several years , with 168 grain Red Tip bullets .
God bless Wyr
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Wyr,
I have been shooting 10.5 gr of 2400. and having some success with commercial 165 gr flatnose plain base. Waiting on a mold. I am going to try a Lee tumble lube design if it works out probably get a ranch dog mold. It seems everything out there is backordered.
Bob D
Do you know the velocity ?
I hope to get the velocity up and the trajectory a little flatter .
That is one reason I want to try WC846 . And I have it on hand . And I bought it several years ago , cheap . :-)
God bless Wyr
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post retracted, my question was not valid , I miss under stood what I read the first go around. oops..>
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wyr
I don't know the velocity.
I have been shooting a two inch groups at about 50 yards. I think it will tighten up when I switch to a different bullet with smaller grooves. The ranch dog molds are a better fit for microgroove barrels (so I have been told).
My rifle is sighted in at 250 yards for 30-30 jacketed and hits high at 50 yrds about 5-6 inches. I use a 4x power scope. Hits about center with cast without changing sight. I think it is starting to drop about there. At 100 yards I will be hunting worms. I may jack up the speed with IMR 3031 but will wait on the new mold as it is a gas check design. We shall see what we shall see.
I am going to try a .311 165 gr bullet from Lee tumble lube with the small grooves. It was original designed for a 303 brit. I will see when the mold arrives sometime in 2030 (backordered... Ha! Ha!)
I have no experience with the powders you mentioned above but I try to limit my destructive capacity with things that I can duplicate later.
Bob D
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wyr
I don't know the velocity.
I have been shooting a two inch groups at about 50 yards. I think it will tighten up when I switch to a different bullet with smaller grooves. The ranch dog molds are a better fit for microgroove barrels (so I have been told).
My rifle is sighted in at 250 yards for 30-30 jacketed and hits high at 50 yrds about 5-6 inches. I use a 4x power scope. Hits about center with cast without changing sight. I think it is starting to drop about there. At 100 yards I will be hunting worms. I may jack up the speed with IMR 3031 but will wait on the new mold as it is a gas check design. We shall see what we shall see.
I am going to try a .311 165 gr bullet from Lee tumble lube with the small grooves. It was original designed for a 303 brit. I will see when the mold arrives sometime in 2030 (backordered... Ha! Ha!)
I have no experience with the powders you mentioned above but I try to limit my destructive capacity with things that I can duplicate later.
Bob D “
I have a mold on back order from Lee , for .357 Mag . So , I feel your pain . :-(
God bless Wyr
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