Sidewinder Missiles in 03.

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  • Last Post 01 September 2008
BruceV posted this 24 July 2008

For a good little while I have been enjoying shooting my one and only cast bullet load which consist of a Hunters Supply 165 gr. BBFP hard cast bullet over 8.0 gr. of Unique.  Fired from my beloved Crackbaby (Rem. 03 w/ 4 groove HS-44 barrel) this load regularly produces nice round 2-2.5 inch ten shot groups.  However there is a problem which was especially noticable at the match this past Saturday.  Almost without exception every round showed a slight amount of yawing.  It was very consistent.  The barrel on this rifle is as near perfect as one could imagine.  The crown in absolutely perfect.  One suggestion at the range was that I increase the powder charge to 10-12 gr. of Unique so as to increase velocity and better stabilize the bullet.  I have not had any problems with leading in this rifle using the above listed load.  I have tried to figure out why the yawing is occuring.  Although velocity is not high, I would think 8.0 gr. of Unique would be sufficent to stabilize this weight bullet in a standard 1-10 twist barrel.  I have about 700 of these bullets left and since the next vintage military rifle match is next month, I have time to do a little experimenting to try and eliminate the yawing and maybe even make the load shoot better.  Any suggestions will be appreciated. 

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JeffinNZ posted this 25 July 2008

If they are 'hard cast' they will certainly stand the stiffer charge.  Sounds like they require a shade more speed to me.  What diameter are they?  Do they fit the barrel well?

Cheers from New Zealand

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CB posted this 25 July 2008

Bruce I would give this a try.. 18.0gr of SR4759.. There are many that shoot this load over a Saeco 315 which drops out at 170 gr. It should be close and may possibly solve your keyhole problem. This powder meters very well and I think the velocity will be around 1700fps. In an '03 it should perform well.

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Ed Harris posted this 25 July 2008

Jeff Bowles wrote: I would give this a try..18.0gr of SR4759.. There are many that shoot this load over a Saeco 315 which drops out at 170 gr. It should be close and may possibly solve your keyhole problem. This powder meters very well and I think the velocity will be around 1700fps. In an '03 it should perform well. This think that is a bit much for a non-GC, Bevel-based bullet. 

My vote goes for a modest increase in the Unique charge. 

It shouldn't be necessary to go over 10 grs. , but there is no problem pressure-wise going to up 14 or so as long as the load still shoots well.  I have found that Unique and Bullseye both have a fairly narrow working range. At about 1350 fps you start getting leading which requires frequent cleaning to maintain accuracy, whereas below 1300 a smooth bore, properly conditioned will maintain a steady-state  condition much like a .22 rimfire. Then thorough cleaning is seldom necessary as long as you run a wet patch of ER through the bore when you are done, and two dry patches to push out the “sludge” and dry out the chamber each time before you start shooting again.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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BruceV posted this 26 July 2008

 This is just one of the reasons why a novice such as myself reads the postings to this site.  When it comes to casting and shooting cast lead bullets, I am only slightly removed from total ignorance.  That I have blundered upon a load that in my rifle gives good results is pure luck.  That anyone cares to offer suggestions that will save me a great deal of searching up blind alleys is nothing less than pure kindness.

Hopefully tonight I will have time to load up some trial loads using the suggested increases in powder charge.  If the increase in velocity results in better stablized bullets and equal or better accuracy, I will be most pleased.  Otherwise... I suppose Crackbaby will continue to fire Sidewinder missiles  at the club matches.  Who knows... I might even manage to improve my scores.

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cityboy posted this 26 July 2008

My 30-06 built is built on  a 03-A3 action with a heavy Hart barrel. Using the Lyman 311284 cast from WW alloy and 11.5 grains of Unique extreme size varies from 0. 74 inches to 0.96 inches. This is at 100 yards, 5-shot groups and are the average for 4 groups.

Velocity was measured at 10 feet with an Oehler model 33 chronograph. It has given me trouble-free service ever since I bought in back in June of 1986.

Jim

 P.S. I aways taper my bullets to fit the throat, which has a 1.5 deg included angel throat, in an Eagan 30T taper die. I hope someone picks up where he left off.

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BruceV posted this 28 July 2008

Last night's plan to load ammo did not work out :(as I was and currently am dealing with a stomach virus.  Stuck sitting at home is no way to spend your day off!  If I get to feeling better I am going load a series of rounds at 8.5, 9.0, 9.5, 10.0 grs. of Unique.  Hopefully I will get nice round bullet holes and nice round small groups!  We'll see.

On a similar note, I've got several hundred pieces of Korean PS-75 brass as well as 200-300 pieces of Greek HXP brass.  My current batch of brass that I am using for my lead loads is on it's 7th loading.  At some point I realize I will need to replace my brass.  Has anyone used either the PS or the HXP for loading?  Other than sorting by weight, etc., what if anything should I do in preparing the brass for use with lead loads.  Also has anyone noted any issues with primer pockets with the PS or HXP brass?

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sundog posted this 28 July 2008

Bruce, I use mostly LCNM 78 brass, some Win and Rem, for all my 30-06 work.  Some has as maybe 18-20 loadings, all cast.  I think none of it has been trimmed more than once.  Anything for jacketed I keep anf treat separately.  That means ya gotta have a lot of brass on hand when you have a couple M1s, several 03s, etc.  Small investment all it's own.

My goto load for 180ish-200 gr cast in '06 is 21.0/IMR4227.  I've won or placed in more mil bolt matches than not with that load in my stock CMP Rem 2 groove 03A3 using 311291, 314299, and #301.  That rifle will produce 98s with Xs on demand on the SR21 @100 yards.  It's a good'un.

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RicinYakima posted this 28 July 2008

Sundog,

Your 21 grains of IMR4227 is right at the same speed as most other good target loads. Do you find it very position sensitive? I have been using #2400 for years, but was given several pounds of H4227 I need to use up.

Thanks, Ric

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sundog posted this 29 July 2008

Can't say on the H flavor, but IMR 4227 at  21.0 does not seem to be position sensitive.  That is, no wild swings of pressure that I can tell or unexplained flyers.  I do not have any numbers in front of me, but that load is fairly consistent across the chrony.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 29 July 2008

Hi, regarding case life, with mild loads and minimum working of the brass, using dies selected or polished to size just enough to hold the bullets as you prefer.  ( Using Lee collet dies, or/and gentle sizing buttons is even better .. ) ... you might expect 30 or 200 cycles on your brass.  I had a batch of commercial .222Rem brass that were still going at 200 loadings each .... never had to full length size,just neck size with minimal working dies.  used mostly graphite powder dip and just right size sizer die and buttons.  If the necks cracked a little, I threw the brass away, I never tried ” annealing” them, that might have saved a few.  Finally had to stop using them as the rims rounded off from the extractor ( Rem 722 ) . (g).

Interesting was that the neck cracking sort of occured throughout the rim life of the cases .... not just at the end, as you might expect.  Maybe they should have been annealed occasionally (g).

Just some trivia... ken campbell, deltawerkes

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BruceV posted this 29 July 2008

I am amazed!  Just imagine... I could work up a nice batch of closely matched brass for Crackbaby... find some way to leave my press and powder measure mounted and then in just minutes I could be producing my Sidewinder Match Load!  Seriously I am truly amazed at anyone who could get so many reloads out of a batch of brass.  I thought 10-15 loads was really doing something.  I've got a lot to learn.  Sincerely.  Bruce.

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sundog posted this 30 July 2008

Lee collet neck sizer is the bee's knees for this application.  No pushing, pulling, just a gentle squeeze.  One of the best inventions ever made for the hand loader.

There's a caveat to this however.  I was feeling rather benevolent one day a few years ago, and I let a shooting buddy have 100 brand new LCNM cases.  They were worn out in about 10 loadings and had to go to recycle.  He was shooting a really light charge of H108, and when I asked him about it he fessed up that the primers kept backing out and accuracy had gone south.  He was shooting too low a pressure and apparently setting the shoulder back every time fired.  To me, that can create a dangerous situation.  We had a chat about, and I think that he's made some adjustments.  My stash of LCNM brass is now locked up as what I have left needs to last me the rest of my shooting days.

Oh, one other thing, if you want to expend the effort.  Early on in a cases life an outside neck turning can be quite beneficial.

A piece of brass that is well fitted to a chamber and not overly pressured should give a long life.

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CB posted this 30 July 2008

Bruce,

I've been using the same brass in my 308 for competition for 4 years now. They have at least been loaded 60 times. I annealed the necks last winter since I got a crack on one last season.  My buddy has loaded his so many times in his 308 that the primer pockets are enlarging. He now uses Remington primers because they fit tighter in the large pockets and keeps on shooting.................Dan

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Tom Acheson posted this 30 July 2008

Bruce,

There is a shooter up here in Minn. who keeps pestering me to try 12.0 grains of 4756 with almost any CB in a Springfield '06. I haven't done it yet but he claims it's a good combo. Don't much about 4756 except that it might be a shotgun powder.

Tom

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Mark Wackerfeld posted this 01 September 2008

BruceV wrote:  "Korean PS-75 brass & Greek HXP brass, on it's 7th loading.  At some point I realize I will need to replace my brass."  Hi;                

     You need to anneal the first 3/8 of an inch of the neck of the 30x06 brass.

        The old time'y way was to roast each and every one over a candle like they were hotdogs. In today's world we hustle along it seams. So I use stripper clips to hold the brass 4 at a time! Then I stack them around a gas stove burner after removing the black iron ring. Then all you must learn is cook the color into the neck of the brass.

           Sooo you will learn that the brass holds heat after the “cookingâ€? and the anealment of the brass continues after the brass is removed from the flame. If this is over done the anealment of the extractor will make the brass so soft the brass extractor rim will just rip off in full-length sizing. This is why “ that no work.â€? From a Greek Wedding.

            It would appear that by mil spec requirements. Mil spec brass must be annealed the first 3/8 to 1/2 inch of the neck. Well that's for 30x06 mil 223 is a smaller amount of anealment “Color.â€?  So start looking at that new'ish mil spec brass and inspect the anealment “Color in the brass.â€?  

 

Best of luck!                       Mark

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Wally Enga posted this 01 September 2008

Tom Acheson wrote: Bruce,

There is a shooter up here in Minn. who keeps pestering me to try 12.0 grains of 4756 with almost any CB in a Springfield '06. I haven't done it yet but he claims it's a good combo. Don't much about 4756 except that it might be a shotgun powder.

Tom

Tom,

I'll bet your talking about “Mikee"  here :)

He got me perked up enough to give it a try --- takes a few more gns of 4756 to get the same velocity as a Unique load --- works good, but I can't say any better then a Unique load.

It does flow thru a powder measure about a smoothly & consistent as any powder I have used.

Wally

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cityboy posted this 01 September 2008

sundog wrote: There's a caveat to this however.  I was feeling rather benevolent one day a few years ago, and I let a shooting buddy have 100 brand new LCNM cases.  They were worn out in about 10 loadings and had to go to recycle.  He was shooting a really light charge of H108, and when I asked him about it he fessed up that the primers kept backing out and accuracy had gone south.  He was shooting too low a pressure and apparently setting the shoulder back every time fired.  To me, that can create a dangerous situation.  Setback of the shoulder when shooting light loads is easily avoided. I spray the cases with a silicone lube I bought in Walmart. I have ben using it for years without any trouble.

Cityboy

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