Help : FR-8 .308 Win Load with A No. 9

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Last Post 05 October 2009

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303PV posted this 06 August 2008

I would like to use Accurate No.9 in .308 Win with a 150 grains GC Saeco bullet #316 or with a Lyman 311299 GC 200 grain: I have slugged the barrel of the FR-8 and it is .308.

I would like to get some recommendations for loads please.

Thanks.

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37 Comments

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linoww posted this 06 August 2008

I have used 18-19.5 of AA#9 in the 308 with the heavier bullets.I never used anything lighter than 180 grains.Accuracy was good in Remington 308's.

Not sure if the reduced ball powder in rifles warnings apply to #9,but i never had any trouble.I shot about 8# of it in the 308 ad 30-30's

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Standard Member

sturf posted this 07 August 2008

FYI. Fr8 Spanish Mauser is not 308. It is 7.62 Nato. Loads are different.

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303PV posted this 07 August 2008

Thank you for pointing that out. I have read about the difference between 7,62x51 Nato and .308 Win. some time ago.

I use a Lee collet die and the ballistic program Quickload calculation shows that the pressure is +/- 25000 psi with the Lyman 200gr and a load of 18.0 grains A No.9 I have seen advice about not using reduced loads with ball powders.But the experience of linoww shows that ball powders can be used . Thanks. PV

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Match Director

linoww posted this 07 August 2008

FYI. Fr8 Spanish Mauser is not 308. It is 7.62 Nato. Loads are different.

There should be no large difference in cast bullet low pressure range loads I would think.Jacketed full loads are a different situation.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Match Director

linoww posted this 07 August 2008

303PV wrote: I have seen advice about not using reduced loads with ball powders.But the experience of linoww shows that ball powders can be used .

Thanks.

I would not reduce or raise that load as i never used any other charges.I also have shot W296 in the 308 and in same charge ranges,but it is not recommended by others.There is load data for it in the RCBS cast bullet manual from the 1980's that make me feel warranted in using it.CE Harris had Olin run some data with w296 in the 80's with cast bullets and they didn't like the way it behaved and wouldn't recommend it as a reduced load in rifles.I would lean towards the powder companies data and not my personal experience with 296,who knows i may just be a shot away from a disaster? I have never heard problems with AA#9 though.maybe others here could verify this.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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CB posted this 23 August 2008

303pv

I use 18 grs acc no.9 with a lee 150 grs lead bullit. in my Winch.M70 308 W.

Its works perfect and have a smal group on 100 meter.

Leo 367

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303PV posted this 24 August 2008

Dag Leo,

Thanks . Did you haveany unburned powder in the barrel? Did you measure the velocity?

Bedankt,

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CBA Member

billwnr posted this 24 August 2008

I think anyone who says the .308 Win and the 7.62 Nato aren't the same cartridge is confusing the difference between a SAAMI chamber and a “generous” military chamber intended to function with either dirt in the action or dirty ammo.

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CB posted this 25 August 2008

Aan 303pv

Ik heb geen onverbrand kruit in de loop. Een snelheidsmeter heb ik niet, maar weet dat het volkomen veilig is. Ik gebruik ook 150 Lee met gascheck , geeft bij mij een kleine groep.Expirimenteer veel met andere kruitsoorten en ladingen.,zoals 5744, VV N120.aac 8700 . dit gaat allemaal. De gasdrukken zijn vrij laag.

Mocht je nog meer info willen ,laat het me weten. Heb redelijk veel ervaring.

Ik gok er op dat je Nederlands spreekt, zo niet genoeg kan ik altijd in het Engels verder gaan. Laat maar weten.

Voor de goede orde, ik gebruik alleen maar cast bullits met gascheck

Groeten Leo 367

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303PV posted this 25 August 2008

Leo, thanks for the information.

I think that we should only use English.Otherwise other people will not be able to understand what is said.

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CB posted this 25 August 2008

to 303 pv

Can you give info about the price of powder in Luxenburg? In Holland we have crazy prices. By exemple: VV 100 serie : 65 till 70 euro pro kilo. Accurate 60 till 66 euro pro kilo. American powders : 39.euro pro 1 lbs. Primers 30 till33 euro pro 1000. you see very expensif.

Regards Leo 367

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CBA Member

giorgio de galleani posted this 25 August 2008

I would be cautious with pre 98 mauser actions and 308 w or 7,62 Nato loads.

Those actions were made for 7x57 mauser or 6.5 Swede.

The old 7.62 Nato round was adopted by Spain as the 7.62 CETME load,a 130 gr bullet load with lighter pressures adapted to the Spanish Cetme assault rifle and the various 92 and 95 actions.

If you want big bangs,get an used modern magnum american made rifle,the louder the bangs the newer the used guns are.

I still own a ruger 416 rigby bolt rifle,with a box of 16 loaded cartridges,you guess the piece had been fired once at the Italian proof house and four times by the first owner.

I shoot only cast bullets.

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303PV posted this 25 August 2008

Giorgio,

The FR-8 is a 98 action . The original 8x57 IS was not a low pressure cartridge in the original military loading.

I want to get the best accuracy at 100 m with a cast bullet. I have three molds

1 saeco 150 gr. A Lee 180 gr. and a Lyman 200 grain. I made some loads with

VV N110, A No.9, H4198 and VV N140 with a filler. Now I just need some time to go to the range!

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Standard Member

Gee Wizz01 posted this 15 November 2008

303PV wrote: Giorgio,

The FR-8 is a 98 action . The original 8x57 IS was not a low pressure cartridge in the original military loading.

I want to get the best accuracy at 100 m with a cast bullet. I have three molds

1 saeco 150 gr. A Lee 180 gr. and a Lyman 200 grain. I made some loads with

VV N110, A No.9, H4198 and VV N140 with a filler. Now I just need some time to go to the range!

Leo, prices in Luxembourg are somewhat lower, but comparable. http://www.hunting-sport.com/>http://www.hunting-sport.com/ or http://www.armurerie.lu/Produits/produits.asp?P=4>http://www.armurerie.lu/Produits/produits.asp?P=4 Have you had a chance to try your loads yet? I have an FR-8 and I can't get it to shoot well with heavy cast bullets, but it does quite well with light weight bullets in the 115 gr to 135 gr loads with both 2400 and Unique. The velocity is around 1600 fps to 1800fps. It seems to like the Lyman 311599 seated to the middle of the bottom band or the Lee 120 gr round nose also seated long.

Gary

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303PV posted this 16 November 2008

I have tried lots of loads . The best results I got were with Vectan A1 . That is close to Unique in burning rate. The groups in the picture are with 11.0 grains A1 at 50 m. I did not continue with No.9 because I did not get good results.

The bullet was cast with a Lee C312-185-1R mold . The WW weights plus 2% Tin had a hardness of BHN 14. The upper group measured 35 mm (without the 2 fliers) and the lower group is 48 mm. I discovered that the bullet must make a considerable jump before entering the barrel when seated with the upper grease groove outside the case. Therefore I have asked Veral Smith of LBT to cut a mold for this rifle .

I will post the results with the bullets cast with the new LBT mold.

I also want to look at the influence of the flash suppressor.

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Gee Wizz01 posted this 16 November 2008

Your groups are very similar to mine, except I am using a much lighter bullet. Right now I am experimenting with Codarnall's Freechex and I am getting good results with the Lyman 311599 sized .310 and lubed with Lee Alox (NRA formula). So far I have achieved the best accuracy with 12 to 13 grs of Unique. I haven't cast the chamber yet, but the throat on these rifles must very large as I cant seat the bullets out far enough to touch the rifling. My next plan is to try the Lee C312-155-2R with Unique, 2400 and Rx 7. This rifle shots extremely well with 150 gr jacketed bullets, so I hope to get some equally accurate loads with my cast bullets.

Gary

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CBA Member

JetMech posted this 17 December 2008

I also have an FR8 that also shoots very well with 150 gn jacketed. I'm planning on trying the Lyman 314299. It has a good reputation for performance in military rifles. I'll try Unique first, then maybe SR4759. The use of ball powders concerns me because I'm not sure the phenomenon of the extreme pressures generated in some loads is fully understood (at least by me), so I stay away from them. The FR8s are large ring actions and are chambered and rated for full power 7.62X51 NATO ammo. The NATO chamber dimensions are slightly longer (.0005, off the top of my head) so I think the only thing to be concerned about is repeatedly full length resizing with a 308 Wichester die set. This could lead to early brass failure with full power loads. Military brass also has slightly reduced capacity compared to 308 brass, so loads should be adjusted accordingly.

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Standard Member

Gee Wizz01 posted this 18 December 2008

Years ago I tried using the 314299 with 2400 and Rx7, but I never achieved any satisfactory groups and I just gave up on it with heavy bullets. Let me know how your groups work out.

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WyrTwister posted this 17 March 2009

303PV wrote: Thank you for pointing that out. I have read about the difference between 7,62x51 Nato and .308 Win. some time ago.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.asp>http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.asp

I use a Lee collet die and the ballistic program Quickload calculation shows that the pressure is +/- 25000 psi with the Lyman 200gr and a load of 18.0 grains A No.9

I have seen advice about not using reduced loads with ball powders.But the experience of linoww shows that ball powders can be used .

Thanks.

I have been experimenting a little with cast bullets in .30-30 .

You all have me interested , now , about cast bullets for military rifles . I have a FAL , Garands ( including a 7.62 NATO one ) and a M1A .

So , I am asking for advice for 7.62 NATO for gas guns ?

The lever guns seem to like big ( .310” to .312” ) cast bullets . How about the gas guns ? Or do they do better arounf .308” - .309" ?

God bless Wyr

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cast367 posted this 18 March 2009

Wyr

I have experience with bolt actions, not semi auto like Fal and Garand.But you can try the loads in a semi auto. I use the 180 grs rcbs with gascheck , sized .309 20 grs Acc5744 , 22 grs Acc 5744 150 Gc Lee. It is in an semi auto maby not enough for repeating.

For 30-06 is 25 grs Vito Vu and 180 rcbs GC an exelent load in my Parker Hale.The Lyman cast handbook gives a lot of loads .

Leo367