32 H&R Bunny Gun Load Development

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RicinYakima posted this 25 August 2008

Hello all,

This is the 6 month anniversary of the first range session with the Iver Johnson Cycle Works conversion. So I owe you all an update.

Mechanics: The old shotgun sized firing pin and standing breech pin hole have been an issue from the beginning. The pin is pointed and almost half the size of the primer and the hole is 75% of the small primer diameter. Primer flow back has been a problem that is only solved with using SR primers for thicker cups. The hand made ejector is working out. Don't even think of conversion, make a new on from scratch.

Shooting: Even with a 1 in 10 Springfield barrel, it will not shoot heavy bullets, but it has nothing to do with twist rate. All, even 190+ grainers are point on, no yawl but big groups. My thought is that ahead of the 2 1/2 inch tight cemented chamber the barrel is just 0.402 inches in diameter. It is free floating inside the 410 bore for about 18 inches. Argie1891 made a bushing for his that holds the muzzle tight in the bore. Mine is free floating. If you thump the barrel against your leg, you can hear the insert ringing like a bell on the inside.

Loads: Lighter is better. Bullet weight is down to the RCBS 98 grain SWC and the Lyman 311492 92 grain WC. Lighter powder charges are better, as so far 2.5 grains of 700X is giving me about 1 1/4 at 25 yards. Mag cases are more accurate than 32 Long cases.

It is a fun little gun to shoot at about 4 pounds 6 oz. Quiet, no ear plugs required. But still working on load development.

Ideas and thoughts are welcome.

Ric

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NoDakJak posted this 26 August 2008

I would suggest turning a groove in the ront section of the rifle barrel and using an “O” ring to snug things up.  It deadens the barrel vibrations while also allowing it to expand in both diameter and length due to heating.  If you cannot remove the liner things are a little tougher.  I have not tried it yet but would suggest using a hypodermic needle and injecting common silicon sealer around the end of the barrel for the same effect.  If tolerances are too tight to allow this you might drill and tap a hole through the shotgun barrel only and install a zirc fitting.   This would allow you to inject the silicon with a grease gun.  This should fill virtually the entire gap and if it doesn't cure the problem I might suggest a barrel change.  Don't forget to remove the zirc fitting before trying to reinstall the fore end.  Ho Ho!

  Most or all of the large Martinis had a dovetail cut across the breechblock and a piece of metal fitted into it which was then drilled for a smaller firing pin.  Another alternative is to center things and then use an end mill  to cut a recess in the breech face.  A plug may then be either threaded or soldered into the breech face and then drilled for a smaller firing pin.  A shotgun breech face is seldom eat up by leaking primers and the simplest solution would be to simply drill and tap to 8x40 and install a screw.  Drill this to the proper diameter and install a new firing pin.

BTW:  The Trail Boss loads that I quoted only worked in the one rifle.  The other three rejected it.   Neil

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Ed Harris posted this 26 August 2008

As a general purpose load for use in modern .32 S&W Long revolvers,  the Marlin 1894CB and my single-shot H&R I've settled on the 115-gr. version of the NEI #82, plainbase with its GC heel only removed.  It resembles the old #3118 being .63 long with .315 bands, .303 bore riding nose and .195 diameter meplat.

I cast these 10BHN, tumble in Lee Liquid Alox and size .314, loading in .32 S&W Long cases with Federal 200 primers and 2.5 grains of Alliant Bullseye at 1.32” OAL.  Federal 200 primers have a heavier cup which somewhat mitigates the primer cup flow problem into the shotgun breech face.  Firing trials in my H&R quickly to reveal when a load is too hot, because hard-opening in the shotgun occurs before primer cups start to flatten in the revolvers.  Factory Federal 85-gr. JHP loads in the .32 H&R Mag only rub a shiny spot around the indent of the primer cup, but open with little effort, so anything which opens hard in MY H&R is well over 20,000 psi. 

The 1.32 overall length pokes out the front o fthe cylinder of my old S&W Hand ejector. That is a GOOD thing because it keeps me from putting a too-hot load in a nice old gun.  The old .32 HE is “married” to the Saeco #325 98-gr. SWC and 2 grs. of Bullseye, which shoots to the fixed sights and is “bunny wabbit accurate."

Using the 2.5 grain charge in .32 S&W long cases at 1.32 OAL for the modern .32 revolvers velocity is 750 f.p.s. in my 3-inch S&W M31, 830 fps in the 4” M31 and Colt Police Positive, and 870 fps in the 4-5/8 inch Ruger Single Six.  It gets 990 fps from the 20 inch Marlin 1894CB and 1030 f.p.s. in the 26-inch H&R.  Report from the rifles is very moderate, like shooting a .22 LR.  Velocity standard deviations are in single-digits.  This load gives inch 5-shot groups at 25 yards with peep sights in either of the rifles and “about 2 inches” +/- at 25 yards from the modern revolvers off sandbags when you can screw your eyeballs in tight enough.

When I want a heavier load I use 3.5 grs. of Bullseye in Starline .32 H&R Mag. brass which gives the 115-gr. 1030 fps from the 4-5/8” Ruger single Six, 1280 f.p.s. from the 20 inch Marlin 1894CB and 1330 from the 26 inch H&R without any hard opening.  Approximates standard velocity lead .32-20 loads in performance. When my cache of Midway close-out 94-gr. Meisters is gone, I will standardize on this bullet in my .32 revolvers and rifles. 

 Yes, I have tried heavier loads with slower powders and they don't shoot this well.    

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 26 August 2008

Ed, Your advice is always good and I am finding out that 2.5 grains of fast powder seems to be the accurate load. I was hoping that the Lyman 311316 (modified to plain base) at 115 grains, so to be interchangeable with the 32/20's, would be good to reduce bullet inventory. But if the Bunny Gun wants 95/98 grain bullets, that is OK, too. After all, it only has to knock done small rodents in the 25 to 50 yard range, be light to carry and “look right"!

NoDoJack, I let my buddy talk me out of the groove and “O” ring idea (our minds seem to work together!) and just build it straight free floating. I was worried about rust between the liner and original barrel back from the “O” ring. The problem now is that there is a difference of 6 inches from the muzzle of the liner and the muzzle of the shot gun barrel. I may just have to heat it and take it out.

Firing pin issues are a little harder. Frame is cast steel and casehardened, I know I tried to cut it with a file and no luck, too hard. It will mean a carbon electrode anneal to machine. Plus the fire pin strikes down at about a 10 degree angle for these small frames. I will have to look at the geometry first.

Best wishes, Ric

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william iorg posted this 28 August 2008

Ed,

 

I have wanted to try the NEI No. 82 for quite awhile. I have the Lyman 311008 but this bullet seats considerably deeper than the NEI bullet. The 311008 has a nominal meplat of .196 but the NEI bullet carries more of its mass outside the case.

 

From your figures I estimate you are seating your NEI bullet .239� deep which would leave you with an approximate water capacity of 9.2 grains remaining in the case. While this is not load data this would leave you enough room for:

5.52 grs of Bullseye

9.05 grs of H110

7.91 grs of H4227

8.63 grs of H Lil'Gun

 

More than enough powder room for this size case.

 

The Lyman 311008 is about .635â€? long and I seat it .285â€? deep. This leaves a working capacity of about 8.1 grs of water in the .32 S&W Long case. Again not load data but in the .32 S&W Long case  but this equates to:

4.88 grs of Bullseye

8.0 grs of H110

6.99 grs of H4227

7.63 grs of H Lil'Gun

 

I couldn't locate the bulk density of 4756 or I would have included it. We certainly have more than enough powder capacity for either bullet when seated in the .32 S&W Long case.

I really enjoy shooting the 110- and 115-grain bullets in the .32 H&R Mag and the newer .327 Federal. The heavy bullets Shoot accurately in a variety of handguns and rifles and kill well on heavy bodied critters. Adult porcupine and raccoon represent a severe test for .32 caliber bullets and the 115-grain bullets perform very well.

The best words of advice I have read from you was to soften my bullet alloy. I try to keep all of my .32 caliber bullets at 14 BHN and softer.  The softer bullets, when sized properly, give excellent accuracy, leave my barrels clean, kill well and all without a gas check.

Slim

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Ed Harris posted this 28 August 2008

Bill,

My 115-gr. NEI #82 is .63 long, .315 bands, .303 nose with .195 meplat.  I'm using 10BHN alloy with the 2.5 gr. load of Bullseye in .32 S&W Long brass, not quite 1000 fps in the Marlin and around 830 fps in the various 4-inch revolvers.  Not a hint of leading.  I'm using a light coat of LLA and pushing them through the .314 Lee sizer.

Gotta cast more of these.:):fire   

 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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6pt-sika posted this 28 August 2008

Ed Harris wrote: When I want a heavier load I use 3.5 grs. of Bullseye in Starline .32 H&R Mag. brass which gives the 115-gr. 1030 fps  from the 20 inch Marlin 1894CB .    

In the “Handloader” mag  April 2001 .

There is a load mentioned that intrests me .

On page 48 there is mention of shooting the Lyman 311316  115 grain GC bullet with 11 grains of H110 and getting 1,231 FPS from one of the Ruger Single Six 4 5/8” barrels .

Is this a realistic figure  ?

I was assuming with the almost 15 inches more of barrel  on the Marlin 1894CB in 32 MAG that the velocity would go up maybe 200-300 FPS ? Is this an incorrect assumption ?

I realize this is a good bit heavier then a rabbit load , but I am still curiouse . :cool:

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william iorg posted this 28 August 2008

Ed,

I assumed you were using the 1.320� COAL and using .920 for the case figured .400� of bullet outside the case and .230� inside.

It is interesting the meplats are not that far apart on the two bullets. The NEI bullet has a more modern shape and with slower powders the extra case capacity provided by the weight forward shape gives you a little extra case capacity.

 

6Pt

This is an opinion only ”€œ if you use 11.0 grains of H110 behind a 115-grain bullet you will loosen primer pockets quickly.

My heavy loads are a 115-grain cast bullet ahead of 10.0 grains of H110 and this load is a bit hard on cases. Using this load in the K-frame Smith and Wesson using Starline brass the cases will fall out of the chambers. My Ruger Bisley will have some slight extraction difficulty due to the annular rings machined into the chamber walls. I guess Ruger left the chambers rough on purpose as my Buckeye Blackhawk has the same rough chambers. Both Ruger revolvers will exhibit sticky extraction prior to the S&W K-frame revolvers.

With my 4â€? J-frame M-631 Kit Gun this is a maximum load and I much prefer using 9.8 grains of H110 behind the 115-grain bullets in the J-frame and 9.5 grains is even better for regular use. For the lighter frame guns like the aluminum frame Centennial 9.0 grains is a better load for the heavy bullet. The light J-frame will accept the lighter 100-grain bullets and 9.8 grains of H110.

The limiting factor to the .32 H&R Magnum is the case. When the .32 H&R Magnum first appeared some exuberant silhouette shooters and varmint hunters tried for maximum power and case life was short due to expanded primer pockets. I believe you are looking at a load which originated back in those early days.

Edit>

I should have mentioned this is a realistic figure for velocity. I would bet if they did not have extraction problems they have polished their chambers a little. As I said I'll bet the case life is a bit short.  

Slim

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6pt-sika posted this 28 August 2008

william iorg wrote: 6Pt

This is an opinion only ”€œ if you use 11.0 grains of H110 behind a 115-grain bullet you will loosen primer pockets quickly.

My heavy loads are a 115-grain cast bullet ahead of 10.0 grains of H110 and this load is a bit hard on cases. Bill , you think the Marlin 1894CB will be alright with the 10 or 11 grain load ?

I am thinking this load in a 20” barreled rifle will aproach 32-20 velocities from years gone bye with the 115 grain bullet that is . So then with 10 grains of H110 and the 311316 in my Marlin I should realisticly be able to reach maybe 1500 FPS then ?

   

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william iorg posted this 28 August 2008

Yes, you can attain your velocity goals in the rifle. Ross Seyfried well exceeded them in his Ruger No. 3 using a 1.60” Coal.

I have experimened a little in this direction with our TC and the Marlin 1894. Believe it of not I experienced quicker kills at lower velocity.

 

If you have acess to any old G&A magazines look for the article:

.32 H&R Magnum New Combo Choice For The ‘80's

Ross Seyfried

Guns & Ammo August 1987

Slim

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6pt-sika posted this 28 August 2008

william iorg wrote: I have experimened a little in this direction with our TC and the Marlin 1894. Believe it of not I experienced quicker kills at lower velocity. 

   

In another Handloader mag April 2008 . The same guy was talking about loading the 32-20 with the 311316 and 12.5 grains of H110 for about 1950 FPS in and old Winchester 1892 with a 24” barrel .

This got me started thinking !

That load is pretty darn close to my 30-30 deer loads . And so goes my thought process ! And I've already killed deer quite nicely with my old Marlin 32-40 with a load that was not quite 1400 fps .

At some point in time I was thinking I would put myself in a setting where my longest shot would be 40 yards tops and try for a deer with one of my Marlin 1894's in 32-20 .

Then after rereading the article on the 32 MAG and seeing the assumed velocity this person was putting in print I was thinking under the same situation I  just might be able to do the same thing with the 32 H&R MAG . Of course I would need to practice quite a bit of restraint and hold out for a smaller deer . And with that in mind I would most likely have another rifle or pistol along in case a warhorse stepped out .

 

Anyway that is the direction I am heading in my thoughts on the 311316 in both the 32 MAG and 32-20 .

Sorry if this branched off from the original idea of the topic .>

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Ed Harris posted this 29 August 2008

6pt-sika wrote: In the “Handloader” mag  April 2001. There is a load mentioned that intrests me . On page 48 there is mention of shooting the Lyman 311316  115 grain GC bullet with 11 grains of H110 and getting 1,231 FPS from one of the Ruger Single Six 4 5/8” barrels.  Is this a realistic figure  ?

I was assuming with the almost 15 inches more of barrel  on the Marlin 1894CB in 32 MAG that the velocity would go up maybe 200-300 FPS ? Is this an incorrect assumption ?

I realize this is a good bit heavier then a rabbit load , but I am still curiouse . :cool: That is probably a real velocity for H110, but the pressure is probbaly pushing 40,000, which is alot hotter than I want to shoot. 

Using Bullseye powder in cartridges having a working pressure similar to .38 Special +P, around 20,000, the difference in velocity between a revolver and rifle is about 120-150 fps, depending upon bullet weight.

Most of the time I'm not interested in supersonic rifle loads because I'm trying to mkeep the noise down.  A loud cracking load defeats the whole purpose of the walking gun and I may as well use a .22-250!

I am using these guns as a substitute for .22 LR, which is more reliable on critters of groundhog size and a bit larger where the .22 is marginal, but which doesn't tear up the table game like a Hornet or WMR does.   .>

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 29 August 2008

“Most of the time I'm not interested in supersonic rifle loads because I'm trying to mkeep the noise down.â€?

 

Well said and one of the best reasons for using cast bullets. For the lighter critters the lower velocities are the best approach. Over penetration is another consideration.

For the heavier critters such as adult raccoon and porcupine I prefer 1200 fps+ for the 100- and 115-grain bullets. With a lung shot on a raccoon this is considerably more power than required. For a shoulder shot on an adult raccoon in a tree it is: enough power.

The adult porcupine will defeat bullets of light construction at any velocity. The heavier bullets are sure stoppers but not always one shot killers on the porcupine.

The mention of noise is very important to me. A lot of my critter shooting is incidental to outside work and I generally do not have time to put in ear protection. The .32 Long loaded with a heavy bullet at lower velocities is ideal for this type of shooting. When critter hunting the .32 H&R Magnum rifle is reasonably quiet and when loaded with heavy bullets at modest velocities is very quiet.

There certainly are two different levels of performance to consider. My wife and I have had unpleasant encounters with feral dogs (we live in sheep and goat country) and I have taken quite a few stitches from one of the more memorable encounters. Some dogs (the chow is burned indelibly in my mind) have very thick coats and present a serious challenge for the light weight bullets. From past experiences I know I prefer a 115-grain .32 caliber cast bullet at 900 fps to a .38 caliber 125-grain JHP at 1200 fps.

 

You have probably seen my other posts on the .32-20 Blackhawk and know I regularly load the 115-gr gas check bullets ahead of 16.0 grains of H110 for 1,665 fps from the 7.5� barrel. The only problem is carrying the handgun. The Buckeye Blackhawk is heavy.

 

Back to more pleasant thoughts”¦ I have placed a Ruger .30 Carbine cylinder on my “wantâ€? list. I'll keep my eyes open for one and maybe someday we'll get to compare our heavy frame .327 federals.

Ross Seyfried exceeded 2,000 fps with 110 grain .308â€? diameter Speer varminter bullets in his .32 H&R Magnum Ruger No. 3. Seyfried made no mention of case life but I will guess it was short ”€œ perhaps three shots per case.

In the .32 H&R Magnum rifle I wouldn't regularly load more than 10.0 grains of H110 behind the 115-grain bullets and 9.5 grains would give you much greater case life.

This is the area where the .327 Federal is going shine brightly. As a small game hunter and varminter I believe it is the cartridge I have been waiting for.

 

I am curious as to how long the cylinder is on your Ruger SP101? My S&W Model 16 has a cylinder length of 1.565�, the M-631 Kit gun has a cylinder length of 1.400� and the Ruger SSX Bisley has a cylinder 1.450� long. The short cylinder on the J-frame presents a balancing act between powder charge and bullet weight. I have a mold for the NEI No. 81 SWC bullet with the gas check shank left off. This bullet weighs a nominal 100-grains and has a short nose. The short nose is a real help when loading for power in the 1.400� cylinder.

 

If anyone has an LBT Ogival wadcutter I would sure like to hear a field report on it.

 

For our jacketed bullet discussions we had probably move to the link below or start another thread somewhere else.

 

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=47667&highlight=.327+federal

Slim

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william iorg posted this 29 August 2008

“Most of the time I'm not interested in supersonic rifle loads because I'm trying to mkeep the noise down.â€?

 

Well said and one of the best reasons for using cast bullets. For the lighter critters the lower velocities are the best approach. Over penetration is another consideration.

For the heavier critters such as adult raccoon and porcupine I prefer 1200 fps+ for the 100- and 115-grain bullets. With a lung shot on a raccoon this is considerably more power than required. For a shoulder shot on an adult raccoon in a tree it is: enough power.

The adult porcupine will defeat bullets of light construction at any velocity. The heavier bullets are sure stoppers but not always one shot killers on the porcupine.

The mention of noise is very important to me. A lot of my critter shooting is incidental to outside work and I generally do not have time to put in ear protection. The .32 Long loaded with a heavy bullet at lower velocities is ideal for this type of shooting. When critter hunting the .32 H&R Magnum rifle is reasonably quiet and when loaded with heavy bullets at modest velocities is very quiet.

There certainly are two different levels of performance to consider. My wife and I have had unpleasant encounters with feral dogs (we live in sheep and goat country) and I have taken quite a few stitches from one of the more memorable encounters. Some dogs (the chow is burned indelibly in my mind) have very thick coats and present a serious challenge for the light weight bullets. From past experiences I know I prefer a 115-grain .32 caliber cast bullet at 900 fps to a .38 caliber 125-grain JHP at 1200 fps.

 

You have probably seen my other posts on the .32-20 Blackhawk and know I regularly load the 115-gr gas check bullets ahead of 16.0 grains of H110 for 1,665 fps from the 7.5� barrel. The only problem is carrying the handgun. The Buckeye Blackhawk is heavy.

 

Back to more pleasant thoughts”¦ I have placed a Ruger .30 Carbine cylinder on my “wantâ€? list. I'll keep my eyes open for one and maybe someday we'll get to compare our heavy frame .327 federals.

Ross Seyfried exceeded 2,000 fps with 110 grain .308â€? diameter Speer varminter bullets in his .32 H&R Magnum Ruger No. 3. Seyfried made no mention of case life but I will guess it was short ”€œ perhaps three shots per case.

In the .32 H&R Magnum rifle I wouldn't regularly load more than 10.0 grains of H110 behind the 115-grain bullets and 9.5 grains would give you much greater case life.

This is the area where the .327 Federal is going shine brightly. As a small game hunter and varminter I believe it is the cartridge I have been waiting for.

 

I am curious as to how long the cylinder is on your Ruger SP101? My S&W Model 16 has a cylinder length of 1.565�, the M-631 Kit gun has a cylinder length of 1.400� and the Ruger SSX Bisley has a cylinder 1.450� long. The short cylinder on the J-frame presents a balancing act between powder charge and bullet weight. I have a mold for the NEI No. 81 SWC bullet with the gas check shank left off. This bullet weighs a nominal 100-grains and has a short nose. The short nose is a real help when loading for power in the 1.400� cylinder.

 

If anyone has an LBT Ogival wadcutter I would sure like to hear a field report on it.

 

For our jacketed bullet discussions we had probably move to the link below or start another thread somewhere else.

 

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=47667&highlight=.327+federal

Slim

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Ed Harris posted this 29 August 2008

william iorg wrote: ...For the lighter critters the lower velocities are the best approach. Over penetration is another consideration...

For the heavier critters...adult raccoon and porcupine I prefer 1200 fps+ for the 100- and 115-grain bullets...

...adult porcupine will defeat bullets of light construction at any velocity...heavier bullets are sure stoppers but not always one shot killers on the porcupine.

...A lot of my critter shooting is incidental to outside work and I generally do not have time to put in ear protection. The .32 Long loaded with a heavy bullet at lower velocities is ideal...32 H&R Magnum rifle is reasonably quiet and when loaded with heavy bullets at modest velocities is very quiet. 

... two different levels of performance to consider... encounters with feral dogs... From past experiences I know I prefer a 115-grain .32 caliber cast bullet at 900 fps to a .38 caliber 125-grain JHP at 1200 fps. This all parallels my experience.  The Saeco #325 SWC at 98 grs. is heavy enough and is a good penetrator at around 900 fps, is well stablized and penetrates 30 inches of water. The subsonic bullets riccochet like crazy if you aren't careful, but a large meplat seems to help them dig in and hang on to where they hit.

I prefer a large meplat for its greater frontal area for stable penetration and maximum crush volume over a heavier bullet having a smaller meplat. A meplat less than 1/2 of bullet diameter isn't adequate for game larger than rabbits and squirrels. The NEI #82 at .195 is about 0.6 cal.; the LBT .312-105FN and Saeco #325 (SWC) bullets about 0.7, which is better.

While for small edible game the light 830 fps handgun loads work fine, on feral dogs, raccoon and larger groundhogs, the increase in velocity enabled by using the same ammo in a rifle is an important difference.  I'm more inclined to do that than try to swap revolver ammo on the fly.  If only carrying the handgun, I'll opt for a heavier load if walking beyond the home environs.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 29 August 2008

“The Saeco #325 SWC at 98 grs. is heavy enough and is a good penetrator at around 900 fps, is well stablized and penetrates 30 inches of water.â€?

 

Ed, were you using a Fackler's box? We made up an open top trough using three 1 X 12's about 8 feet long. We would fill white trash bags with water and tie wrap the tops closed. With a light card board target on the end we could shoot into the box and after the shot cut the bags with scissors and lay the bag edges over the sides of the trough. This left the trail of lead and jacket material exposed on the white bag material along the bottom. It was easy to measure penetration distance and to judge how the bullets held up in a similar medium.

We would sometimes hang cactus paddles on a wire in front of the trough and shoot through them on the way to the trough. It was surprising to see how far into the water the bullets would drag cactus paddle material.

The hydraulic action was hard on the box and it required constant repair. Long wood screws and heavy cotton rope held it together for several years of interesting shooting. The only bullet to ever defeat the box was the Lyman 358009 fired at LOW velocity from a .35 Whelen.

Slim

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6pt-sika posted this 29 August 2008

william iorg wrote: Back to more pleasant thoughts”¦ I have placed a Ruger .30 Carbine cylinder on my “wantâ€? list. I'll keep my eyes open for one and maybe someday we'll get to compare our heavy frame .327 federals. I wonder if Ruger would be willing to fit a cylinder and run the reamer thru it ? Ross Seyfried exceeded 2,000 fps with 110 grain .308â€? diameter Speer varminter bullets in his .32 H&R Magnum Ruger No. 3. Seyfried made no mention of case life but I will guess it was short ”€œ perhaps three shots per case.

In the .32 H&R Magnum rifle I wouldn't regularly load more than 10.0 grains of H110 behind the 115-grain bullets and 9.5 grains would give you much greater case life.

It is my intention to not shoot two many that are 10 or 11 grains of H110 with the 115 grain 311316 !  

I am curious as to how long the cylinder is on your Ruger SP101? My S&W Model 16 has a cylinder length of 1.565â€?, the M-631 Kit gun has a cylinder length of 1.400â€? and the Ruger SSX Bisley has a cylinder 1.450â€? long.  The length of the SP-101 327 cylinder is 1.581” and the length of the cyliner on my Single Six 32 MAG is 1.403” .

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6pt-sika posted this 29 August 2008

As far as the 10 or 11 grain load of H110 and the 311316 . I think I will take about two dozen new cases and set them aside for this !

And will more then likely stay with the 10 grain load . If I can borrow a Chrony from someone and get a velocity I like with 9 grains I'm willing to drop to that !

I want to try this under optimum conditions once . And if I try it on a smallish deer , I'll only try it once !

Thats kinda like the Marlin 336SC 219 Zipper I sighted in today . Loaded that thing with the Nosler 60 grain Partition and if I get a chance to take a smallish deer with it this year I will and then it'll be a for fun groundhog rifle the rest of the time I own it ;)

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william iorg posted this 29 August 2008

This weekend I'll try to load a few of these (both 9.0 and 10.0 grains of H-110 and the 115-grain gas check bullet) too and we can compare notes. I'll shoot them through the Marlin and the Buckeye using new Starline cases. I'm not a big Dove hunter anyway”¦

 

Ross Seyfried once hinted the Ruger SSX Bisley loaded with a 110-grain bullet was adequate for a close shot on deer ”€œ as long as you demanded perfect bullet placement ”€œ I always assumed he was writing from experience.

 

There are a few deer killed around here every year with a .22 Hi-Power”¦

 

My Charter Arms .327 Federal cylinder is 1.585�long. Thanks for the Ruger measurements.

Slim

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6pt-sika posted this 29 August 2008

william iorg wrote: This weekend I'll try to load a few of these (both 9.0 and 10.0 grains of H-110 and the 115-grain gas check bullet) too and we can compare notes. I'll shoot them through the Marlin and the Buckeye using new Starline cases. I'm not a big Dove hunter anyway”¦

 

Ross Seyfried once hinted the Ruger SSX Bisley loaded with a 110-grain bullet was adequate for a close shot on deer ”€œ as long as you demanded perfect bullet placement ”€œ I always assumed he was writing from experience.

 

There are a few deer killed around here every year with a .22 Hi-Power”¦

 

I'm going to take a guy from amrlinowners to the range here monday . So I will load some as well if I can get myself to lube size them !

 

I got on this kick after I read Brian Pearce's articla about the 32-20 earlier this year and he stated that he had killed a few deer with the 311316 and 12.5 grains of H110 in a 32-20 rifle .  So then I dug out the other magazine that he had the article about the 32 MAG when Ruger brought the fixed sight Single Six's out again in 32 MAG and his stated load for the little revolver was 10 grains H110 the 311316 and he was saying he got 1200 FPS in the little revolver .

So naturally my thinking goes to whether I can pop a deer with it humanely provided I take extra care ! And based on the velocity I think can be attained with the 32 MAG in the mittle Marlin rifle it is my thinking that it's about equal to the old 32-20 loads that killed many many deer years ago .

The first deer I ever witnessed being killed was shot by my maternal grandfather with a Remington Model 722 in 222 REM that I just inherited a couple months ago . He shot a very large bodied 6 point buck in the temple at a stepped off 100 yards . I never realized how large his buck was until I took the antlers down off his wall recently . The old buck was only 6 points , but he was 20” wide and very very heavy beamed .

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6pt-sika posted this 29 August 2008

william iorg wrote: This weekend I'll try to load a few of these (both 9.0 and 10.0 grains of H-110 and the 115-grain gas check bullet) too and we can compare notes. I'll shoot them through the Marlin and the Buckeye using new Starline cases. I'm not a big Dove hunter anyway”¦

   

Dove season doesn't start until monday !

I thought it started saturday as well , but I was told the other day that federal law does not allow dove season to open in august , the season cannot begin until spetmeber !

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william iorg posted this 01 September 2008

Well, I almost did what I wanted to this weekend. I simply could not find my 115-grain gas check bullets. I had them out when I was loading the .327 Federal and .30 Carbine stuff but I have set them aside somewhere “safe.â€? Figuring close is a start; I loaded some Lyman 311008 plain base bullets ahead of 9.0 and 10.0 grains of Hodgdon 110 using Starline brass and Federal No. 200 primers. I seated these to 1.425â€? and used the Redding Profile crimp die. The Redding die sure does a nice job of crimping the case mouth.

Shooting the 9.0 grain load in the Buckeye Blackhawk at 25 yards these loads chronographed 1,085 fps and shot inside 2 ¾�. The 9.0 grain load in the Marlin 1894 chronographed 1,477 fps and shot into 2�.

The 10.0 grain load in the Buckeye Blackhawk chronographed 1,175 fps with a slightly smaller group. In the Marlin 1894 the 10.0 grain load chronographed 1,594 fps and shot inside 2 ¼� from my card table rest. I have an XS rear sight and a Marbles Sourdough front sight on the little Marlin.

I have shot smaller groups with both guns but I have shot a lot more groups that were larger. I may have been a bit pessimistic about the 10.0 grain Hodgdon 110 load and the 115-grain bullet. There was no indication the load was maximum in either firearm. The empties fell from the Blackhawk cylinder when touched by the ejector rod. The chambers on my Blackhawk are rough enough they will exhibit sticky extraction quicker than the K-Frame S&W .32 Magnum. Putting a few cases into a control group will answer the case life questions. The initial indications are the heavier load may be more accurate. Perhaps a comparison between a 9.8 and 10.0 grain Hodgdon 110 load would be worthwhile. I fed the loads through the magazine on the Marlin and they fed without trouble. I'll load some more of these and the next time I shoot them I'll enter a 10 shot string of each into Greg Mushials RCBS Load program and graph them by velocity and extreme spread. The latest addition of Load is 3.31d and it is by far the most user friendly version. Data is easier to work with and the cartridge designer page is greatly improved. There are now many different bullet profiles to work with and lots of color to shade your drawing if you desire. The update is available free on the GMDR web site if you have the disk.

These loads gave a little les velocity than I expected in the Blackhawk. While these loads are not suitable for a Kit Gun they would be quite useful for the walking around rifles like the Marlin 1894 and the TC Carbine. Funny thing about the start of Dove season. The past few days has been rather noisy ”€œ “Testin for the bulldogginâ€? is the saying used here. Today has been quiet.

Slim

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6pt-sika posted this 01 September 2008

Well I missed out on getting any 311316's lubed and checked and of course loaded .

 

But thats just as good because I spent 6 hours at the range today with a young man from marlinowners that wanted to get some help with his 336 30-30 . And I carted along a bunch of Marlin's in variouse calibers for him to try .

Spent about 6 hours there with this young fellow today . And I really didn't shoot but maybe a dozen times all told .

Oh well the 311316's will give me something to do later this week in the 32 MAG !

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william iorg posted this 02 September 2008

6Pt, better to give a hand to a young shooter just starting out than to look at minor project like this.

The long cylinder in the big Buckeye special and the limited case capacity of the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge will prove a challenge for loading.

In the Ruger SSX Bisley 11.0 grains of Hodgdon Lil'Gun or 5.0 grains of Unique or 800X will push the Lyman 311008 to 1,200 fps +. The Unique and 800X loads are maximums but the Lil'Gun load is not.

We can discuss bullets in copper panties on the other forum. It will be fun to compare the Lyman 311008 with the .308� Speer Varminter bullet.

Slim

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william iorg posted this 04 September 2008

6Pt,

 

I don't know if you are aware or not but Ed Harris tested +P+ loads for the .32 H&R Magnum sometime around 1994.

Ed used the Oehler System 82 to record pressure and velocity data. Ed was only able to test the 85- and 100-grain Hornady XTP bullets. Ed used a Ruger SP 101, Single Six and a pressure barrel in the tests.

Ed used SR-7625 and W-231 for these tests. I don't use Winchester 321 at all and have only limited experience with SR-7625 so I have never duplicated his loads.

The item of interest is his 100-grain load data:

100-gr Hornady XTP with 4.5 grains of SR-7625 ”€œ 1,180 fps at 37,846 PSI.

100-gr Hornady XTP with 5.0 grains of W-231    ”€œ 1,264 fps at 40,202 PSI.

 

Ed felt these loads were excessive and the handloader should reduce these loads by 10% to start. My notes indicate Ed wrote the loads were about 5% over maximum.

Ed experienced extraction difficulty in the Ruger Single Six so his chambers must have been as rough as those on my Ruger SSX Bisley.

The Ruger SP-101 gave no extraction difficulty.

 

SR 7625 is slightly slower than Alliant Unique on my chart. I have chronographed 5.0 grains of Alliant Unique behind the Lyman 311008 in my Ruger SSX Bisley. I have the tape out from when the printer worked on my Oehler 35P and the average velocity was 1,214 fps.

In the S&W J-Frame Model 631 4� Kitgun the best full power load with Unique is the 5.0 grain load behind the Lyman 311008 for and average of 926 fps for an average of eighteen shots fired in three six-shot strings.

To be honest I believe the 9.5 grain H110 load is a little better for both accuracy and power in both revolvers.

When you start your load tests give some consideration to adding Hodgdon Lil'Gun to your loads and we will compare it to H110 for velocity and accuracy with the heavy bullets.

 

I was looking over some .32 H&R Magnum heavy bullet load notes and just thought I would point out that Ed Harris walked this path well ahead of us.

Slim

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argie1891 posted this 04 September 2008

Ric and i have been playing with these little rifles for 6 months and my experience is exactly opposite than his. my 32 mag. shoots the lyman 311241 with 10 gr. of surplus 680 into 1.5 inches at 100 yards. it shoots the lighter bullets almost as well but not as consistently. My rifle uses a 12 ga. and a commercial  blr. the bushing at the muzzle is a tight fit and i am sure it adds to the accuracy. Now i want to work up a 25 yard sub sonic load that is super quiet. I also made a 32-40 with an 8mm blr and it is still in the load working stages. joe gifford aka argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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6pt-sika posted this 05 September 2008

william iorg wrote: 6Pt,

 

I don't know if you are aware or not but Ed Harris tested +P+ loads for the .32 H&R Magnum sometime around 1994.

.

The item of interest is his 100-grain load data:

100-gr Hornady XTP with 4.5 grains of SR-7625 ”€œ 1,180 fps at 37,846 PSI.

100-gr Hornady XTP with 5.0 grains of W-231    ”€œ 1,264 fps at 40,202 PSI.

 

Ed felt these loads were excessive and the handloader should reduce these loads by 10% to start. My notes indicate Ed wrote the loads were about 5% over maximum.

Ed experienced extraction difficulty in the Ruger Single Six so his chambers must have been as rough as those on my Ruger SSX Bisley.

The Ruger SP-101 gave no extraction difficulty.

 

To be honest I believe the 9.5 grain H110 load is a little better for both accuracy and power in both revolvers.

When you start your load tests give some consideration to adding Hodgdon Lil'Gun to your loads and we will compare it to H110 for velocity and accuracy with the heavy bullets.

 

I was looking over some .32 H&R Magnum heavy bullet load notes and just thought I would point out that Ed Harris walked this path well ahead of us.

I ordered a box of the Hornady 100 grain XTP's today for use in the SP-101 327 Federal ! And while I was at it I got another box of the 85 grain XTP's as well .

 

But for the 32-20 and 32 MAG in rifles I want to get the 311316 to work with H110 with enough umph to knock over a deer . I'm kinda feeling if I can get the 311316 to come out of the 20” 1894CB in the 32 MAG at about 1400-1500 I should be okay for a well placed shot on a deer to about 30 or 40 yards . Be kinda like bowhunting with a rifle . And for the 32-20 with the same bullet I am thinking 1800 should not be difficult at all as long as it shoots pretty accurately . But again I will hold the shots to 40 yards or less !

 

I got on this kick a couple years ago of carrying a revolver when I deer hunt ! Really I started doing it because I have a couple decent revolvers and I really have no need for them other then my 629 4” for personal defense .

In the Galco high ride holster that 629 is a pretty decent hunting sidearm . However it a little heavy on the belt . So last year I picked up that Single Six 32 MAG for the same purpose . But it isn't as good for long sits in a treestand . This new SP-101 in 327 Federal however has a high ride Bianchi holster that should make it just the thing for me and it weighs almost 2 ounds less I think !

No I don't plan on killing a deer with the 327 , but it is a nice one to have in case you have to put a finisher in a deer . .>

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