Yildiz .410 conversion

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  • Last Post 17 November 2008
gordiab posted this 01 September 2008

While at Academy in the Austin, TX area, I handled a Yildiz .410 single shot shotgun. It is in the pattern of the old Beretta folders, where it basically folds in half. It is a very petite shotgun, weighing 3.3 pounds! Walnut stock, with an aluminum frame. The firing pin seems much more accessible than some of the older models. You can go to the Yildiz website for more info. My question is whether or not it would be suitable for  conversion to .32 S&W, or a .38 Special wadcutter gun?

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RicinYakima posted this 01 September 2008

Any 410 could be converted with a liner turned down from a 30 caliber barrel. However, I would have my doubts about a .357” barrel liner. The exterior will have to be less .405” and that is pretty thin if you have a high pressure load. Not that the liner will break, but expand out to fill the inside of the original barrel. Then you would have a “ring” in your liner. HTH, Ric

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RKing22 posted this 13 November 2008

Got me one of these too. I had been looking for a Beretta and casually asked to look at this “Turkish copy” at Academy one night .I was impressed with the fit and finish as well as the light weight ,for 120$ it followed me home. The barrel is assembled into a mono block so I will probably remove it and replace with a 32HR chambered takeoff or maybe a Green Mountain 38 special. The frame is aluminium and chambered for 3 in 410 so it should be good for 38+P level pressure .I will shoot mostly slow and quiet loads for harvesting tin cans andsuch.

I have a 4cavity seaco 140gr plainbase (322 I think) ,has anyone loaded this bullet in a 32HR rifle ? I would like to know if 1400FPS is attainable at factory pressure levels and will 1 in 10 stabilize it. I'm looking for a woods walking 4.5 lb rifle to shoot this plain base bullet 1000 to max 1400fps into inch or so at 50yards.

Did I mention the wood is great on the Yildiz and I liked the 410 so well I'm going to get a 2nd one to build my ultimate bargain plinker! This thing weighs 3.3 lbs and shoots where you look .The trigger is better than a handi and the firing pin is already bushed! It's also appropriate scale to the 410 so with a barrel contour about like a Winchester 69 it should still be under 4.5 lbs.

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Ed Harris posted this 14 November 2008

RKing22 wrote: I have a 4cavity seaco 140gr plainbase (322 I think) ,has anyone loaded this bullet in a 32HR rifle ? I would like to know if 1400FPS is attainable at factory pressure levels and will 1 in 10 stabilize it. I'm looking for a woods walking 4.5 lb rifle to shoot this plain base bullet 1000 to max 1400fps into inch or so at 50yards. My Saeco #322 weighs about 123 grs. in wheelweights.  The 140-gr. plainbased cowboy bullet for the .30-30 is a different number, but it should work OK with a nominal “casefull” of 4198 or RL-7 and the bullet seated out for about 1300 f.p.s.   You could also use about 6 grs. of #2400 or 7 grs. of 4227 for about 1200 f.p.s. I would avoid the very fast powders with bullets heavier than 130 grs. unless you keep velocities subsonic.  Otherwise they build too much pressure and destroy accuracy.  About 2.5 grs. of W231, or 3.5 grs. of Unique or PB will give a nice quiet load about 1000 f.p.s. in your rifle, and would be stable in a ten inch twist.

You can't get 1400 f.p.s. rifle velocity within factory .32 HRM pressure levels.  You can get about 1250-1300 in a rifle and maintain good accuracy 100-130 grain plainbased bullets. Loads to try which work well with Ideal #3118, NEI #82, RCBS 32-90CM, Saeco #325 and 123-gr. Saeco #322 are 8 grs. of 4227, 7 grs. of #2400, 4 grs. of Unique or PB, 3.5 grs. of W231 or 7625, or 3 grs. of Bullseye, Red Dot or 700X in .32 H&R Magnum brass. 

The standard twist in .32-20 rifles is 20 inches, which is the same as in the US Cal. .30 M1 carbine.  This works fine with cast bullets up to 120 grs. or so.  A 16 inch twist is standard for the .32 S&W Long and .32 ACP and this will stabilize short, blunt 150-gr. bullets such as the #311241 or RCBS 30-150CM.

A ten inch twist is OK if you have a cheap barrel laying around and you want to use it.  My .32 ACP bunny gun barrel was made from a pull-off 03A3 Springfield barrel and shoots an inch at 25 yards with iron sights.   

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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specops posted this 15 November 2008

Ric,

The chamber walls on S&Ws 619/620 (7 shot 357s) are .055 thick and they seem to hold without bulging the cylinder next store.  .405 would seem enough fro normal loads. JMHO.

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RKing22 posted this 16 November 2008

Mr.Harris ,thanks for the reply ,I have followed your writing for many years and very much appriciate your practical but factual approach. You are right about the bullet # it is the 30-30 cowboy bullet ,it shoots quite well in Win 94 and habdi as well as  308Win Kimber and Rem 600. I have a 32HR barrel for a TC Encore but sold the frame as I just did'nt like it. I kept the barrel to post for sale or fit to a TCR83 I have. Decided the TCR will be too heavy for a “andering aroundthe farm"gun so now the Yildiz. I really intend the loads to be a 30cal version of the Win 69 with Subsonic HPs concept. 90% of the loads between 750 to 1100 and keeping the pressure to factory levels. the Yildiz is Alum frame and very small so I do not want to exceed design limits for case head thrust . Looking at 38special also because I have a really nice SW M10 and lots of brass ,just not a rifle type bullet mold for 358dia. I would use a Green Mountain 1in20 twist ,any recomended bullet & Load for the scaled up 22LR ?

Thanks for the feedback ,

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RicinYakima posted this 16 November 2008

specops, That is .405 total with a .357 hole in the middle. Side wall would be 0.043", not very thick! My concern is hoop strength / fatigue with repeated firing, and the bulge that could result. Ric

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specops posted this 16 November 2008

Ric,

Maybe this is a design issue but do you not cut the liner to the chamber dimensions of the 410 shotgun shell?  That would give you a 3” long cylinder (assuming your .005 clearance) that would be .470 tapering to .460 at the throat. Assuming again a 3” overall length for the chamber a .38 Special would leave a 1.85” barrel that would be .100 (assuming a .360 grove diameter) before tapering to the .405 dimension needed for the rest of the length.  Sort of like a stubbie revolver.  By the time the bullet hits the reduction you would have more that doubled the combustion area and dropped the pressure significantly.   Not trying to start a argument just trying to understand the process.  I've used barrel liners for converting shotgun gauges and for converting 12 and 20 gauge guns to rifle calibers before but not on one as small as the .410.

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RicinYakima posted this 16 November 2008

specops,

No offense taken. Your are correct, if those old shotguns had straight chambers. The first I did was a 2 1/2 inch and not only was the chamber not straight with the bore, it wasn't concentric or even tapered. My liner was cut in my lathe so it was straight. I used a flange on the back to fill the shell rim and as a stop. It ended up with only about 1 inch that was a press fit at the back of the chamber, the forcing cone dimension was good, and it fit tightly. But part of the chamber was floating in the void.

I am presently laying out Bunny Gun #2, and will bore the chamber and forcing cone to workable dimensions so that it will be solid for about 4 inches. None of this is an issue with the .308 or .311 bores. But the .357 would make me nervous if it had a bushed firing pin and someone tried to shoot 357 Magnum ammo in one of these things.

Ric

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specops posted this 17 November 2008

There is a area gunsmith that converts double barrel shotguns to double rifles for BP cartridges.  Does a lot of work for the cowboy action crowd.  He bores a taper in the rear that removes the chamber and then straight bores the barrel to true up the alignment.  He uses a eccentric bushing in the front to regulate the barrels to shoot to the same POA.  So basically he has a tensioned tube front to rear ala Dan Wesson and more recently Smith & Wesson.  I've seen some of his work ( a 45/70, a 45/90 and a 50/110) but have never seen any of them shot, thought I have heard they are very accurate.  How are you going to anchor the front end of the liner in your new “Bunny Gun"?   

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RicinYakima posted this 17 November 2008

The eccentric bushing, threaded, has been my thoughts for a double, also. The next Bunny gun is a 28 guage H&R. #1 has a free floating barrel ahead of the forcing cone. It is very sensitive of bullet weight, shooting only the 98 gr SWC and 94 gr WC accurately. The Remington 700 barrel I will use for the next liner is large enough that I will try heating the shotgun barrel in the oven and liner in the freezer. Then the front sight base screws go through the original barrel and into the liner. Goal is the Lyman 311440 150 grain bullet at 1000 f/s. Ric

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gordiab posted this 17 November 2008

A possible rear sight for the Yildiz .410 may be from a Savage Cub. Since the monobloc is flat-topped, it should not be difficult to fit, likely just one tapped hole. I intend to try this out, as the price for each unit is approximately $16 at last check.

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RKing22 posted this 17 November 2008

Planning to either make another monoblock or remove the 410 barrel completely for mine. I want a little more barrel dia if I go with the 38 Special. I have completed the drawings of the mono blok just have to find time to make it. I would not be comfortable chambering for 357 due to the unknown design spec of the frame. 3 inch 410 is 13000PSI on a .475 chamber making 20000PSI my upper limit for a .380 Dia chamber or 27000 for a .334 chamber. Besides I really just want a big 22LR.

 I like the idea for the peep ,note the top of the mono blok on the Yuldiz is tapered to the front. The frame is available for a tang sight by it's design. I have a pic with the stock off but gotta figue out how to post it. A nice low sight line can be had and the stock drop is pretty good for a rifle.

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