No cleaning necessary

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  • Last Post 20 October 2010
FAsmus posted this 22 September 2008

Gentlemen;

It is my (tested) contention that regular cleaning of a rifle used in shooting cast bullets is totally, that is TOTALLY unnecessay.

That being said I'll qualify the statement by saying that the load being used has to be, (as we all strive for anyway) to be accurate and non-leading in the first place.

I have fired thousands of rounds, counted on purpose through a given rifle and compared the first group to the most recent and found no difference in performance.

The only thing I have found is that if the rifle stands idle for a week or two it will not shoot as well as it would if used more regularly. That is, if you fired your favorit load pretty much on a regular basis it'll be as accurate and reliable as you can shoot and it will be that way pretty much forever and never a cleaning rod to get in your way.

I realize that I'm going against the usual custom of cleaning practices but try it for yourself. Save all that cleaning-rod time and spare your barrel the unnecessary wear from excess cleaning-rod use; clean only when you anticipate putting the gun into moth-balls for an extended period of time.

Good afternoon, Forrest

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72coupe posted this 09 October 2010

I shot 110 rounds of 225415 bulletes this morning. The first 10 went into a group 1.8 inches at 100 yards. The last 20 went into a group 7.25 inches. The load is 3.5 grains of Red Dot in LC05 223 cases with BR4 primers the lube is Lyman Orange Magic. Fired from a Winchester M70 Heavy Varmint with Redfield International sights.

This load chronographs 1317 with an SD of 19. The first group was round with a normal dispersion. The last group was a string from 4 oclock to 10 oclock.

I think the rifle needed to be cleaned.

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JetMech posted this 09 October 2010

Man, you dug up an old one!

It's no different than 22rf shooting in that respect. When accuracy starts to degrade, time to clean. I haven't been fortunate to come up with a cast load in anything that will go 100 rounds without some type of barrel wiping/cleaning. Maybe if I change my bullet size by .0005 and use alittle more BAC....

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72coupe posted this 09 October 2010

I was looking through the old stuff to see the consensus on the usual number of rounds before patching. I intended to patch after 40 but the wife called and I rushed it.

I could see the groups deteriorate more and more after 40 but I just kept banging them out.

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DAMRON G posted this 10 October 2010

"It is my (tested) contention that regular cleaning of a rifle used in shooting cast bullets is totally, that is TOTALLY unnecessary."

I dont clean cast military or sporting rifles very often in 30 or 8mm caliber when shot with GC's at about 14-1600 fps.When i shoot plain base 30's @ 1200 i seem to need a scrub near 30-40 to keep the throat clean of misc lube/carbon buildup.Sometimes my 22's will hold up for a 100 or more @ 2100 in Linotype other times i cant get 20 or so before i get an accuracy drop off.My tendency is to shoot a bunch before i decide it's time to clean the thing.Sometimes its a matter of as many as 8-10 shots before it settles and its good after that. I make a point of shooting 50 of a decent load each session so i can try to track how the load is acting with barrel temp/first or last groups better etc..

lately a gun i swore didn't need cleaning(Mosin 91-30) did to get rid of vertical i attributed to barrel temp.In practice it didn't seem, too bad,but in match too many leaked into the 9 ring and 5 strokes with a wire brush cleared it up.It's all a mystery to me,i just go with what works.

George

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tturner53 posted this 10 October 2010

It don't matter for me, I could no more not clean my guns than not breathe. Compulsive something or other, my wife says. I'll bet the OP doesn't even count the number of times he chews a bite of steak. Some people.

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JSH posted this 10 October 2010

My findings on this subject. I found it to vary from one barrel to the next. My BF in 30-20 went through one season of shooting with only a dry patch run through it to remove lube residue. It made chambering a round a lot easier, but didn't really need it. One of my 03's needs brushed every 50-60 rounds to make it happy. jeff

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billwnr posted this 10 October 2010

I'm a cleaner. I shoot in the CBA matches and feel that the non-cleaners give away points to the cleaners. I'd suspect that if a survey was done of the top three finishers in respective matches that it would be close to 100% “cleaners".

My gun wouldn't group smaller clean or dirty....but the POI drops 1 bullet hole at a time with each shot once a certain amount of shots have been fired. One can correct for that with each shot but it's better to clean the barrel and then concentrate on weather conditions and not add bullet count and POI into the mix.

Just my thoughts.

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DAMRON G posted this 10 October 2010

"I shoot in the CBA matches and feel that the non-cleaners give away points to the cleaners."

Bill Anderson doesn't clean.

I agree the POI can be more consistent cleaning.But sometimes after cleaning it takes time to settle the groping as well.Its a huge frustration when you are trying to shoot score matches.Group matches you can chase the bullet holes at least.

George

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CB posted this 10 October 2010

Back in the 1980 I had a rifle-bullet-load combination that shot well and didn't need to be cleaned, just like Forest says. I won my share of postal matches with two or three thousand rounds through the bore without cleaning. In the fall I shot a series of groups, cleaned the bore and shot another series with the same load, The results were identical. I guess I could have gone on until the powder ran out.

I even wrote a scornful article for the fouling shot about how foolish it was to clean. Since then, and many guns and loads later I have never achieved another combination that didn't eventually (sometimes after ten rounds) need cleaning to continue to shoot well. My recent experience has been like several of the posts above. I don't like to clean and would be happy to avoid it if I could just find a rifle and load like the one I shot in the 1980s.

As far as non-cleaners giving away points -- that all depends. I don't believe I was giving away any while winning all those postal matches and not cleaning. Dan Hudson has won the nationals twice and if you ask I believe you can get him to admit that he sometimes shoots that two day match without cleaning. At other times he cleans.

Like a lot of things about cast bullets, about the time you think you know something for certain, reality hit you in the butt to keep you humble.

John

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biddulph posted this 10 October 2010

With my .375 H&H AI I find that accuracy drops off after about 20 rounds or so. I shoot 265 gr wheel weight cast with 13 gr red dot.

Sometimes I fire a couple of full power jacketed rounds to clean it out and then go back to the cast. This works well!

cheers

James

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DAMRON G posted this 11 October 2010

biddulph wrote: With my .375 H&H AI I find that accuracy drops off after about 20 rounds or so. I shoot 265 gr wheel weight cast with 13 gr red dot.

Sometimes I fire a couple of full power jacketed rounds to clean it out and then go back to the cast. This works well!

cheers

James i agree with your jacketed bullet cleaning method ,i  have done it myself.Best use for jacketed bullets i have found<G>

George

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Lefty posted this 20 October 2010

I used jacketed bullets for cleaing when I am shooting casually. However, I have never tried it in my “match” rifle to see what happens to the groups. After this thread, I think I will. As a match director I find that I simply don't take time to clean by conventional means until the match is over.

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John Boy posted this 20 October 2010

... no original gunpowder shooters have posted! The foul left in the bore and not patching or blow tubing will severely distort accuracy and even distance.

Once shot 20 rounds, leaving the foul in the bore, starting at 600yds on a hot day and by about the 15th round, the bullets were hitting at the 400yd mark

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Tom Acheson posted this 20 October 2010

Original gunpowder shooters must be black powder?

Started out using a blow tube but I suspect that was just using my breath's mositure to soften the fouling in the chamber area so I could insert the next round. Switched to wiping between shots and that works better. It applies a consistent bore teratment after each shot, allows easy chambering and doesn't take very long. We have 5-minutes to get 5 record shots off in a BPCR silhouette match so time is easliy managed.

Tom

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