Reloading for the 45-70 and 45-120 rifles and smokeless powder

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  • Last Post 20 March 2009
2frogs posted this 21 October 2008

I have been loading both of these rifles with black powder and I am kind of getting away from the black powder except for my muzzleloaders..

I am going to be experimenting with XMP5744 powder....My question for you is when using this powder or any other for that matter,is a good crimp required for accuracy or not....Rolled or taper crimp?

At my age I am getting tired of washing cases and drying them,etc,if you know what I mean..I no longer compete except for myself...Thanks for any advice you may have to offer......John:coffee

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bfrshooter posted this 22 October 2008

5744 should work fine. It is harder to burn then black and can get dirty. I would go to a harder boolit and more neck tension. A normal roll crimp will help as will seating to touch the rifling or close to it. Heavy boolits help.

Just go to normal smokeless loading and don't duplicate the BP methods.

I tried the powder in my 10” revolver and it seemed a lot of powder did not burn with my lighter boolits of 317 to 387 gr's. Velocity was low. It should be OK in the rifle barrel.

Let us know how it does for you.

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Rawhider posted this 22 October 2008

2Frogs

Dan Phariss who contrubutes to Black Powder Cart. Magazine has written on this subject and has come out very strongly against the faster powders with supporting data to back it up. His writtings switched me from 4198 and 5744 to 4895 with no lose in accuracy in the 38-55 . Mr Phariss worked with or for Shilo Sharps .I really think the reading of what he has to say about the subject would be of great benefit and especially the safety issues he raises aout the faster powders.

Best Regards Rawhider

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2frogs posted this 22 October 2008

Thanks for the replys boys.....Appreciate it....where can I find these articles by Dan Phariss???????Sure would like to read it or them.....John

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klw posted this 04 November 2008

2frogs wrote: I have been loading both of these rifles with black powder and I am kind of getting away from the black powder except for my muzzleloaders..

I am going to be experimenting with XMP5744 powder....My question for you is when using this powder or any other for that matter,is a good crimp required for accuracy or not....Rolled or taper crimp?

At my age I am getting tired of washing cases and drying them,etc,if you know what I mean..I no longer compete except for myself...Thanks for any advice you may have to offer......John:coffee

Started shooting my Pedersoli 45-120 sharps just a couple of months ago.  It started out life as a 45-70 was was rechambered locally.  The minimum recommended charge for a 500 grain cast bullet was 40 grains of 5744.  I know the people at Accurate Powder so I asked how far BELOW this minimum it would be safely to go.  They suggested dropping down in 2% increments.

The 40 grain charge literally rattled your teeth.  I use to think that that old saying was just that BUT you can, literally, rattle your teeth in addition to giving yourself one BIG headache and causing shoulder problems.  When I got down to 30 grains the recoil was ok.  Noticeable but ok.  Accuracy was excellent.

I'm using three RCBS single cavity 45-500-BPS moulds.  I would have expected a lot of weight variation in a bullet this heavy from one mould but it didn't happen.  These three give amazingly consistent weights.  The bullets are linotype and weight 476 grains.

Pedersoli, incidentally, has a parts kit for the 1874 Sharps.  Springs, etc.  I just ordered one as Sharps rifles are notorious for breaking firing pins.

This gun has sat at the back of the safe for probably a decade because I expected the 45-120 to be a pain, literally, to shoot.  But it isn't.  It's really been fun.

 

 

 

 

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2frogs posted this 04 November 2008

KLW====tHATS THE SAME CHARGE I'M USING...I don't think it is to bad myself...I am going to be trying some of the Tail Boss powder in it next..I am using a 600 grain casr bullet...Accuracy is good at 400 yards......T hanks for your information...John

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klw posted this 26 December 2008

I use 28 grains of 5744 in my Pedersoli Sharps with an RCBS 45-500-BPS bullet that weighs 476 grains in linotype. This is WAY below the minimum powder charge recommended but I know the technical folks at Accurate Arms and I asked them about it first. Works just fine. Manageable recoil. If the charge were any higher, and I tried higher charges, it would rattle your teeth literally.

5744 works well in a 45-70 also but so does Unique and the Unique charges are a lot smaller and hence a lot cheaper.

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JetMech posted this 26 December 2008

2frogs,

I've used 5744 in 45-70 and 38-55. It was designed to reproduce BP velocities with smokeless powder. It is a relatively fast powder, bulky, not position sensitive and easy to ignite. I get good accuracy using neck tension only and bullets touching the lands. Mild crimps don't seem to improve accuracy. This is using heavy bullet, 530 in 45-70, and a standard 250 gn in 38-55. CCI BR2 primers, same as I use in BP loads.

Mr. Pharris is well respected in the BP community, and there are some potential pitfalls in using fast powders with heavy bullets,  but 5744 was specifically designed and tested in large capacity BP cases by Accurate Arms. Check out the smokless section on BRCR.net and you'll find many folks using 5744 successfully.

 

 

 

 

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CWME posted this 02 January 2009

I have tried IMR 4198 and 5744 in my 14"  45-70 TC Contender. Accuracy was good but I started getting  some “click.....bang"s with 4198. I was also getting an incomplete burn as the weather turned off cold here in Maine. Had this issue with 4198 with my 06' last Feb too.

I switched over to 24 gr of 2400 and have been having good results so far. I have some loaded on the bench with 25 gr to try this weekend I hope.  

Been using 457-122HP(beagled then sized to .459) cast and lubed weighing out at 341gr, and Lee 330 FP as cast(haven't measured them) with Lee LA weighing out at 339gr. 

Both have been roll crimped. 

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PETE posted this 02 January 2009

John,

  I've fired a boat load of Lead out of the .45/70. I've used XMP5744, IMR 3031, RL-7, Varget, & IMR 4198. The two best powders were RL-7 in my double rifle & IMR 3031 in a Pedersoli Sharps I used to own.

  From what I've found you don't need to crimp the bullets in. Even the light “Gould” hollow point doesn't need it as there is enuf wgt. to offer sufficient resistance on ignition to get a consistent burn. Best loads in any of the powders listed above will have SD's in 10 to 15 fps range with a few going as low as 6 fps.

  With the 5744 you're contemplating, and shooting the Lyman 457122 cast out of 50/50 Lino/WW's, with Rem. cases and Win. LR primers, in my double rifle, the SD's will range from 9.5 fps to 11.2 fps and MV's will range from 1718.8 fps to 1813.3 fps. The most accurate load with this powder was 36.0 grs. for a MV of 1813.3 fps and an SD of 11.2 fps.

  Since this is a double rifle all loads were shot to regulate at 50 yds. Groups for each barrel averaged 1/2", at that distance, with C/C of the two five shot groups being 3 1/2".

  As mentioned above this is not the best powder for this particular gun. It regulates better with RL-7, with individual 5 shot groups about the same size as 5744 and the C/C of both being 1 1/2".  Altho not what you want specifically the above should give you some place to start.

PETE

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762 shooter posted this 20 March 2009

This may be old news, but I checked out gmdr.com for light 45-70 loads using smokless pistol powder.  I have loaded some with Unique and WW231 and the recoil is minimum (243ish). No pressure signs and it seems the guy has done his homework and substantial testing.  No filler.

 

Have yet to test accuracy .  Read his “loading rifle cartridges with pistol powder” article.

I was looking for Trail Boss until I found his site.

45-70 shooter also.

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