100 yd. High Power Load for Swiss K-31

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  • Last Post 13 January 2009
35Whelen posted this 29 December 2008

I've shot local High Powder matches from time to time, but I enjoy .30 caliber military bolt rifles instead of the AR15 types. Only thing is, I hate the expense of firing 100 expensive jacketed hollowpoints just to poke a hole in a piece of paper.

   Well, a few months ago, a kind old fellow gave me a 4 cavity NEI mould stamped 145 308. It's a plain-base design, that with WW's casts a 154.5 gr bullet, but I have always preferred gas-check  type bullets.

 I said all that to ask this: will these loads do for 100 yd. High Power? Our local matches are fired exclusively at 100 yds. It's an extremely pleasant load to shoot and the most appealing part is that 100 rds. of ammo would cost less than $5.00 to load!

  Thanks in advance and LOVE the website. I'll be joining CBA real soon.

  35W

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JetMech posted this 29 December 2008

The speed of sound at standard day conditions is about 1120 fps. If your load has a MV higher than that, it can't be by much. It sounds like that load has alot of promise. It should perform well @100 yds.

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leigh merriman posted this 31 December 2008

what would you say if i wanted a couple hundred as cast of this design? leigh

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35Whelen posted this 31 December 2008

what would you say if i wanted a couple hundred as cast of this design?  

  I would say: “Water-quenched or air-cooled wheelweights, how quick do you want them, and where should I send them to?"

   How's that?

  Greg

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leigh merriman posted this 02 January 2009

greg, as cast would be great. what can i trade? any brass you are looking for? i have a lee mold that was a group buy at cast boolits,it is plainbase and around 150gr,i could cast up some and trade you if you were interested,its flat pointed. i am in no hurry,i have all winter...

leigh merriman 2100 s gillette ave gillette wyoming 82716

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leigh merriman posted this 02 January 2009

sorry,water dropped or air cooled makes no difference to me as long as i know....

the mold i was talking about is 30 cal also,i forgot to mention.

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Gun Junkie posted this 07 January 2009

35Whelen,

I don't see where anyone answered your original question so I'll speak up with my 2 cent's worth.

I've never seen a velocity requirement for high power regardless of distance. I think cast is great especially for 100yd only matches. You will have trouble with the 600yd reduced bull as far as score goes, but for having a good time and position practice who cares.

You may run into some difficulties in the rapid fire stages. If you have any of the clips for your K31 then you should work out ok. Although the ones I got have a lot of cardboard to them and I don't expect them to hold up for very long. I've actually never tried to use one. Again if you're not expecting to score high, just single load on the last 5 of your rapid-fire strings and accept the loss of a few shots if they call time on you. I'm thinking you'll need to roll the rounds into the magazine to let the bolt come forward (then again, I may just be dreaming that....it's been a long day).

I think regardless of your score you'll get a lot of respect for using a bolt-gun and then more for using cast.

My advice is to shoot upwind of the other shooters. You'll spread lube smoke across the line.:D If you're a friendly sort try some of that orange lube or something else that smells good, if not use the stinky stuff and you'll cause those downwind to lose points as they try to bury their noses in their rifle stocks:P

Finally, back to answering your question, check the rules they run their matches under. I think a foriegn military rifle qualifies under a 3.1* something rule. I can't recall which one and if they don't include that rule you may not be able to use the K31. You might have to buy a Springfield:D 

Hope you have a blast!

Gun Junkie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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35Whelen posted this 07 January 2009

Gun Junkie wrote:  

My advice is to shoot upwind of the other shooters. You'll spread lube smoke across the line.:D If you're a friendly sort try some of that orange lube or something else that smells good, if not use the stinky stuff and you'll cause those downwind to lose points as they try to bury their noses in their rifle stocks:P

Finally, back to answering your question, check the rules they run their matches under. I think a foriegn military rifle qualifies under a 3.1* something rule. I can't recall which one and if they don't include that rule you may not be able to use the K31. You might have to buy a Springfield:D 

Hope you have a blast!

Gun Junkie

 

 

 

   

  I've shot several of our local HP matches and to my knowledge there's no velocity requirements. The turnouts are usually quite small, so we don't even have separate classes. Everyone shoots together. Aside from the first which I shot with a borrowed Garand, I've always shot with a bolt rifle of some kind. One match, I had trouble with my rifle, so my buddy loaned me his Pre-64 Model 70 Heavy Barrel 30-06.:shock: Talk about ACCURATE!!! I shot the 600 yd. reduced bull with it and scored a 96 with 4 X's.

   You may run into some difficulties in the rapid fire stages. If you have any of the clips for your K31 then you should work out ok. Although the ones I got have a lot of cardboard to them and I don't expect them to hold up for very long. I've actually never tried to use one. Again if you're not expecting to score high, just single load on the last 5 of your rapid-fire strings and accept the loss of a few shots if they call time on you. I'm thinking you'll need to roll the rounds into the magazine to let the bolt come forward (then again, I may just be dreaming that....it's been a long day).     I fired two matches last year both with the K-31. One with GP-11 ammo, and the other with jacketed handloads. I have some of the cardboard strippers, but since I own two K-31's, I just load the magazine out of the second rifle and use it for reloading during the rapid fire stages. The K-31's are incredibly fast to operate. The first match I fired last year, being WAY out of practice (and a little nervous), I really rushed through the rapid-fire stage. So fast in fact, that after I fired my 10 shots during the first sitting stage, the guy keeping time leaned over and said: “Slow down Greg....you just fired your 10 shots in 40 seconds....” He was standing directly behind me watching because he was quite intruiged by the K-31. The second match  was a 50 round, vintage rifle match in which I won 1st Marksman with 364- 3X. I think regardless of your score you'll get a lot of respect for using a bolt-gun and then more for using cast.

  I think using a bolt, especially an old military bolt does command respect. All the guys I shoot with shoot AR's. One them is always chiding me about “coming over to the dark side” and shooting an AR. But, I have little use for a rifle that cost upward of $2000 whose only purpose is to punch (tiny) holes in a piece of paper. To me, the competition is less about winning and more about the comradery and becoming a better rifleman.

 Oh...and regarding the Springfield, I bought a rebuilt 03A3 last year, but with a K-31 that will do this:

...I have a hard time getting interested in another rifle at the moment!

  Thanks for all your help, GJ!

   35W

 

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Gun Junkie posted this 07 January 2009

35 Whelen,

Nice groups! :dude: And a nice K31. You've made me especially jealous with the aperture sight on the back. Just how did you accomplish that anyway?

I hadn't even considered the possibility of a 2nd magazine. Good deal for you.

Yep, the K31 is a fast bolt, ya gotta pace yourself. I used to shoot highpower with a Remingtion 40X, full distance but not with cast. Slowing down wasn't too bad of a problem once I got a good solid sitting position. Recoil would rock me out of position and along with working the bolt, by the time I rocked back into position and had worked the bolt it was time to fine tune that sight picture and squeeze. Since you don't have that kind of recoil with cast and the bolt is so fast you may have to practice counting to 6 or something to pace yourself.

With what you reported with your cast loads at 50 yards you should do well in a 100yd match. Glad to hear they're not trying to restrict you out with rules.

The only other thought I can come up with is to test your cast loads with the powder positioned forward, level and back for whatever changes that may introduce into your groups. You may have to load a filler or use some slow surplus powder to keep your groups good when you shoot rapid fire. Slow fire you could raise your muzzle to get the powder at the back every time but not on rapid fire. I would worry about a filler on rapid fires though due to possible mixing during the recoil and functioning through the magazine.

Great deal on the mold too. That's a nice pb mold. Looks like a keeper to me.

Gun Junkie

 

 

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35Whelen posted this 07 January 2009

Nice groups! :dude: And a nice K31. You've made me especially jealous with the aperture sight on the back. Just how did you accomplish that anyway?    Thanks, but thise groups were fired from the bench..> They say WAY more about the rifle than me! The sight is a Lyman 48. I don't remember what it fits...possibly a Mauser, or maybe a Model 70....yeah I think it is a Model 70.  I've found that the contour of alot of bolt action receivers are close enough for the sights to practically interchange. In fact, two nights ago, I managed to mount a Lyman 57SME onto a Mosin M44 receiver. Mounting the sight wasn't too bad, but configuring a bolt handle so it'd clear underneath the sight took quite a bit of imagination...and filing...and soldering. After that I just took the eyepiece out, turned it around and threaded it back onto the windage shaft and I was in business!

  Bit, I digress...the sight was a bit tricky to mount on the K-31. First, getting the thing level without proper tools was a huge chore, then I discover that the K-31 receivers are HARD...I mean REALLY hard! As a result, the bit walked on one of my holes, so I had to tap and plug it, and start over. But, I got it!

  Regarding the powder position, I think I'll be OK. As I mentioned, 6.5 grs. of Bullseye shot really well, and since my original post, I've discovered that 8.0 grs. of Red Dot is as accurate as the Bullseye and probably a little faster velocity-wise. At any rate, with both these loads I make no attempt to position the powder. I load the shells, put them in my coat pocket, walk to my bench and dump them all out where I pick them up randomly and load them one at a time in the magazine without any care at all. Maybe when I begin practicing in earnest, I should fire them out of the magazine to see if anything changes? I really hadn't thought about it until you mentioned it.

  Again, I really appreciate all the input and suggestions. I'm getting excited about this. This evening, it occurred to me that with such a light load AND a cast bullet, I ought to be able to practice all I want, even during the summer when it's hot, and not have to worry about excess wear on my barrel.

  35W

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Mark Wakefield posted this 13 January 2009

"Have tried Large Pistol and Large Rifle primers with no discernable difference."

Try bench rest primers buddy it seamed to always show as a tighter group for me.

Mark

 

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