348 Winchester Brass

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M3 Mitch posted this 07 May 2018

Given that .348 Winchester brass, as such, has been "out of print" for some time, but Starline has 50-110 brass available, has anyone formed 348 from it's original parent case?  I would guess that it's too much to hope that a regular FL die in .348 is all a guy would need.

Anybody do this?  Am I better off just skulking around gun shows looking for already formed new or used brass?

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Scearcy posted this 08 May 2018

Mitch

I just sold my .348 Winchester 2 weeks ago. There should be 100 rounds of WW brass down in the cabinet. Some of it is likely loaded but I don't remember how much. I have dies also of course. Actually I think I may have several hundred cast bullets with GC that I bought 100 years ago when Green Bay bullets went out of business.

When I think about it I believe there is an NEW throating reamer for the 348 in a drawer someplace. I don't remember the brand. That cost me pretty good money 20 years ago.

PM me if any of this is of interest. I guess I may as well sell it all. I am going to miss that rifle even though I had not used it in 20 years.

Jim

 

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John Alexander posted this 08 May 2018

A 348 has that effect on hunters. Being left handed, I bought one while living in Alaska thinking it the perfect bear rifle for Alaska. Fitted it with a receiver sight and a "sourdough" front just like Col. Whelen said.  But it never shot as well as I thought it should with any of the three factory loads or handloads. More importantly, there was something about the shape of the stock that kicked the snot out of me which probably had something to do with the RIFLE not shooting well.  But I kept it for years and years even after getting my second rifle an o3a3 for $15 and discovering the wonders of a really accurate rifle and a Weaver K4. 

John

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corerftech posted this 08 May 2018

All must admit though without the 348 we would not have a parent for many even rarer obsolete cartridges.

It has kept alive many many rifles---- Never owned a 348, never will, never shot or handled one, but I have brass and have a death grip on it for obsolete forming.

 

Really bummed about Jamison. I got 25-20SS in the nick of time as they were closing doors. They were the best supplier of 348

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M3 Mitch posted this 08 May 2018

 So did Jamison brass go out of business?  Thanks for the info from everyone, it seems that no one has (yet) got hard up enough for brass to form it from 50-110. 

I have read several posts and articles on other boards, but most of them didn't give much "nuts and bolts" information on how to form the brass.

Apparently Jamison is still in business (as Captech), they still have 25-20 SS and 348 brass on their website, along with realistic looking photos of the product, but everything seems to be "out of stock" as of now:

http://www.captechintl.com/products.php?cat=7

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M3 Mitch posted this 09 May 2018

To more or less hijack my own thread - I have had an original Winchester "Deluxe" M71 rifle, with the peep sight on the bolt, for about 30 years.  I have only shot cast in it, I do have a few old Remington factory loads for it but have not had a worthy target for them.

I wonder if the people who are saying the .348 is inaccurate and a hard kicker are shooting it off the bench?  I would suggest it's not a benchrest gun, you can sight in using a standing rest, or from the sitting position, or to be a complete heretic I can suggest that you sight in from offhand - you can center a 4 or even 6 inch group as well as a 1 inch group. 

The 348 is not intended for shooting squirrels, if your actual zero is off by as much as an inch say at 100 yards, again being a heretic, to me that's close enough.  For the biggest deer, and mostly for elk and moose at up to 200 yards, shooting offhand or maybe if you get lucky looped up and sitting - if your .348 is holding within 4 MOA by itself, at least if I am doing the shooting, it's hardly the weakest link in the chain.  So what I am saying is, if there are other guys out there who have a .348, and are not happy with the way it shoots or find the recoil oppressive, perhaps adjusting your expectations on accuracy, and getting away from the bench, might make you more satisfied with this rifle.

I can hold "minute of beer can" out to about 50 yards anyway with a 200 grain NEI bullet (an old brass mold, from the Walt Melander days).  It hits a gong with satisfying authority.  Maybe I just lucked out and got one that is more accurate than most.

Something I have noticed about this gun, and I think it was Ed Harris who pointed out that this phenomenon is not just lever guns, it's all 2-piece stocked rifles - it shoots way low with "powder puff" loads.  I have to load a decent charge of say IMR 3031 or 4895, or it shoots so low that I can hardly get it on paper with the elevation available in that bolt-mounted peep.  Interestingly, to me anyway, is that my 92 in 25-20 does not throw powder puff loads low, it shoots anything from light loads with Unique on up to more powerful loads with like 2400 pretty much into the same group. 

Anyway.  Just to ramble a bit about .348's and lever guns in general.

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admiral posted this 11 May 2018

With the body taper a 348 has you would need special forming dies to make it from 50-110. You would have to taper the case before pushing the shoulder back, then set the shoulder back and start necking down in many steps. Way too much trouble and expense. I have four M71's. One Winchester Deluxe and three Browning repro's and a Browning 1886 50-110 built from a 45-70 repro. Back in the late '90's into '00 I stocked up on 348 brass fearing the dropping of the cases. All my M71's chamber very oversize cast bullets in the .353-.354" range. In the Brownings there is no throat, the rifling starts immediately. Any bullet sticking out of the case must be at or under bore diameter to chamber easily. My M71's are very accurate with receiver sights and the 225gr. Accurate mould.

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M3 Mitch posted this 26 May 2018

Well I guess buying Jim Scearcy's brass, bullets, dies, etc. is my "solution", at least shorter-term.    So, thanks Jim! 

I may inquire at Huntington Die Specialties about a forming set.  I may or may not want to pay what they want, but at that point I would at least be looking at a number.  Although, I guess I could make .348 brass for resale using the dies as well as make as much as I want for myself. 

A reasonable, regular guy would be satisfied with 100 rounds of brass for a .348, but, I guess I an not regular and not reasonable. 

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M3 Mitch posted this 4 weeks ago

Well, maybe the guys at Starline read our forum?  Anyway they now have .348 brass, $425 for 250 pieces, so it's not cheap, but, whatever, being the inveterate packrat that I am, I will buy 250 at least.

They also have .375 Winchester (Angle-Eject 94) brass, it's cheaper at $145 for 250. 

Get 'em while the getting is good, there may be another dry spell in the future.

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admiral posted this 4 weeks ago

I got that email from them the other day about those calibres. It seems Starline and Hornady are picking up the mantle from Winchester and Remington for component brass. I too raised an eyebrow at the 348 WCF price but hey if we were trying to save money we wouldn't be doing all this gun hobby stuff. Maybe Starline .218 Bee Brass in on the way?

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M3 Mitch posted this 4 weeks ago

I would like to see 218 Bee and for that matter 25-20.  I guess both can be made from 32-20, but would be nice to have correct headstamp and brass ready to load, without so much messing around re-forming.  Starline notes that some 25-20 guns won't chamber brass reformed from 32-20, the rim diameter is too large (well this is nothing some small lathe work or even hand filing would not fix, but, again, I would rejoice at having plenty of ready-to-go brass on hand.)

As to the price on the .348 - well, I would have preferred it not be quite so high, but, as you noted before the .348 case takes a good bit of forming from 50-110, so I guess they have some tooling to pay off.  Being a prosperous old gent of a certain age with few bills and a paid off house, I sort of consider it my civic duty to buy some of that brass, I want the guys who decided to put it in production to be glad they did.

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admiral posted this 4 weeks ago

M3Mitch,

please update when you get the Starline brass as I'm curious about it. If you could I would like to know how much their case weighs.

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M3 Mitch posted this 4 weeks ago

Admiral, certainly, will do.  We aficionados of the .348 Winchester and the 30 Luger need to stick together!

BTW I have bought some 30 Luger Starline brass, while I have not used it, it certainly looks good.  My general impression of Starline is that their brass is at least the equal of Winchester, Remington, or Federal, maybe a bit better.  Maybe not quite up to the standard of Norma or Lapua, but at least damn good.  (what is it about those Scandinavians and their ability to make really excellent, consistent, and just plain beautiful brass, anyway?)   

I would certainly like to think that these will be quite good, as I am paying just south of $2 for each case.

I have those Winchester cases I bought from Scearcy, so can weigh a few of each, see if the Starline is significantly heavier.  Or lighter.

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M3 Mitch posted this 2 weeks ago

Well I have this brass in hand, but have not had any time to do more than just take a quick look at it.  The headstamp is "Starline 348 Win" as opposed to Starline's usual practice of having a couple of stars and the caliber designation only.  While hardly a scientific evaluation, the brass looks good, the case mouths are not beat up, the brass is bulk and so it's just in a plastic bag.

When I get a chance, I can at least weigh a few pieces, and do the same with the Winchester NOS brass as well, see if there is a difference in thickness, and/or a difference in consistency.  If there are other measurements that might be useful to the collective, please post up what they are, and I will do them if I have the necessary tools.

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