311284 lyman mold that doesn't close perfect, brand new too.

  • 4.7K Views
  • Last Post 30 May 2011
corerf posted this 09 February 2009

Hey folks, need some tech support. I received from Midway via wishlist from relatives, a Lyman 311284 DC mold. I took the new mold out of the box and it seemd to mate well. I boolted to a set of lyman handles and when closed I could see some light thru the bottom and teh mold didn't close completely.

There were burrs around the shuffle pins, I removed them. That got the mold to close but still one half of the mold block rocks a thousandth or so. The side with holes was rubbed across a fins superflat stone, it's true. The pinned side still had burrs around the pins and I removed them with a stone. So the rocking I can't get around and now I have modified the mould to get it to close with obvious rub marks on the surfaces.

Still when I look thruy the mold, I see light from a very fine line. I can pinch the bottom of the mold, light goes away. If I pinch the top, light comes back.

When clamped in the handles, I can see light, about a thou or soo gap.

Is this acceptable??

Is this normal for new production Lyman molds??

Did I fubar myself by touching the mold??

I have had to tweak each Lee mold I have purchased and they work beautiful. I only have one RCBS, its perfect and unused.

I have only used lymans, old manufacturing form 60'/70's. They are perfect.

What do I do, call Lyman and complain?? Iwll they take back a mold that has been rubbed on to correct their problems.

Or do I call Midway and complain to them??

Will it hurt the mold to use as is?? I can see how finning and the part line may become a problem when the mold heats up and flows well.

Thanks in advance

Mike

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
CB posted this 09 February 2009

First I would call Lyman.. Tell them this mold has not cast a bullet yet and you can see the light through the mold when closed. See what they say. They may have you return it to them. If they dont, get the mold hot using a propane torch or similar and then clamp it in a vise and let it cool. You might need to repeat this a couple of times. I have fixed a couple molds this way..

Attached Files

gunarea posted this 09 February 2009

Hey Corerf

    First thing to do is give Lyman a chance to resolve the problem. A call to Midway won't hurt and might be the answer. It may also be that your efforts to correct their mistakes may leave you stuck.

    There are a few more things you can do to try and eliminate the apparent gap. Jeff's procedure will be worth the effort, I have used that technique with success. 

   It may only be that the alignment pins need a tap to back them up a fuzz. The pins often are seated a bit too deep into the mating half. The alignment pins are tolerance fit, adjustable and removable. With the blocks hot, the pins can be moved easily. Use a good center punch, not a flat drive punch, as this will have a tendency to mushroom the pin.

   Last resort is to remove the pins. The alignment holes can now be deburred properly and completely. Take care when removing material from block surfaces as this will ultimately produce smaller out of round castings. Re-adjustment of the pins is where most of the burrs come from in the first place so care is needed to avoid them.

   Worst case scenario, you throw them into the trash, I mean Fee-Bay. Bullets are not suitable for sale but unusable equipment, porn and dog poop are salable items. Sorry about the soapbox, best regards for your success on this project.

                                                                                                  Roy

  

Shoot often, Shoot well

Attached Files

sundog posted this 09 February 2009

I've had 3 casting sessions with a DC 311284 in the past week - made about a thousand beautiful bullets.  This mould is maybe 15 years old, and it's cast thousands of bullets.  If I hold the mould up to the light and look down into the cavities I can see light through the noses, but all edges are mated up tight, except bottom center.  Guess what?  It makes perfect bullets.

Depending on what Lyman says if you call them, I'd suggest casting a hundred or so and see what you got.

I look at it like this.  If you get good bullets, then that seeing light is an added benefit - an extra vent hole.

Now, even though I get good boolits, I get ever so slight fin on the tip of the nose.  It scratches of with a thumb nail or mashes down in the top punch.  Either way, the nose is getting very well filled out.  I'd rather this than an anemic nose to small for the bore.

Attached Files

corerf posted this 09 February 2009

Alright, I think I will drop a few before I do anything else. I will call Lyman today and Midway making them aware of the situation. If Lyman will replace it, so be it.

sundog, I thought about the extra vent effect. I think I closed the gap up tight enough to where it might not fin.

Jeff, how hot do I get the mold if I go this way? What color or such am I looking for.

Sad to say I will probably put it on Greedbay if I have blow the deal, being honest about the light.

Attached Files

corerf posted this 10 February 2009

I cast MANY bullets from several new molds and got very frustrated quickly. The Lyman with the problem seemed to drop bullets at any temp fine. There is finning and hairs but as I cleaned the mold a second time with acetone, then smoked again, they cleaned up a bit. Also heating the mold to over 500 deg. seemed to permanently heal some of the nose fins but not completely.

I ended up using a super light coat of FA drop out and brushed after heating to polish it and reduce it's thickness. I lost half a thou in diameter but the bullets and finning are at their best.

I had a new RCBS 35/200gr FNGC for my 357 max, it gave me hell. The sprue bolt never tightens, it stays loose all the time. If I tighten it at all, it binds. Casts ok and a good diameter. I got 359 to 3595 out of it.

Side note: I was quenching at as high a temp as I could and most of the bullets hit the water and bent. It was an experiment to see if a shiny bullet could drop and cool before deforming. NO it cant. But I have a scrap bin full of instantly steel hard bullets. They clink in you hand when two get together, like steel bar stock.

I guess I will shoot a few and see how they do before I send it back to Lyman. I appreciate the help.

Attached Files

sundog posted this 10 February 2009

Speaking of Drop Out... I, for one, think it is a great product. HOWEVER, the spray on method creates too many problems. I get much better results by spraying a q-tip (give it shake to remove excess) and then swabbing the cavity. As it dries, keep swabbing, especially grooves and bands and base. It will clean as well as leave a light film, much lighter than directly sprayer. More control with the q-tip.

I have no qualms about a fine bronze brush for cleaning cavities either (not on aluminium though).

Attached Files

corerf posted this 10 February 2009

I use a cut down chip brush like a toothbrush consistency to smooth the baked on drop out after the mold has cast a few. Kinda like a baked on enamel, its soft enough to lay down in brushed, also thins the application at same time. Thinner is better for sure. But I still loose .0005 in diam. minimum. I am using an alloy that is subject to some shrinkage. If the gun likes a 200 to 210 bullet better than a 150, then Ill end up with an LBT mold and sell off the experimenters. Wish I had bought the mold used, it would work then. Every used mold I get drop without drop out and cast to perfection. Anything new, I have to work the heck out of to get a good bullet. Seems like the break in is 500 bullets or more to get the mold working perfect. Thats alot of casting to get a product to work. Veral says his molds at temp will drop perfect the first time out. I did read up on previous posts regarding dropout problems that the seasoned vets use polishing of the cavs. I did that on my first two lee molds, I used JB bore paste and hard alloy bullets to hand lap the cavs. I got an extra .0002 of diam. and the molds do release very well. There was some softening of the sharp edges at lube grooves, etc. They don't look like machined bulletes any more, their features ever so slightly softened. I think it would be harder to soften the edges on steel molds though. Ill try to lap tonight same way now that I have some clinkers to lap with. Maybe it is very small burrs as Dan Willems had indicated in prior posts.

Attached Files

James Knowlson posted this 07 April 2009

Does anyone remember when a .30 caliber Lyman or Ideal mould dropped a bullet that was .311, .312, or .311 when using #2 alloy. The new Lyman moulds while labeled .311, drop .3095+/-0.0002 and generally shoot like crap.

My old Ideal 308334 sized to 0.311” will shoot near possibles at 100 yards on a MR31 target. A new Lyman 311299 shoots “patterns” not groups. Same brass, powder and primers.

Anyone care to comment??

Attached Files

giorgio de galleani posted this 07 April 2009

For reasons I do not understand people love Lyman moulds.

In the last 40 years I have bought dozens of them myself.

A few were amazingly good .Many were decent and some were insufficient.

Buying from all the big nmanifacturers  and hoping they make bullets that shoot well in your particular guns is like buying lottery tickets.

When I buy a new mold I contact a  small custom mould maker and get a custom mould.

I find  this system cheaper on the long run.I won't cite the name of the fellow on top of this page ,lest he becomes too superb. His surname is Smith:

I have an old  single cavity 311284 ,nothing special and an old double cavity,decent perfomer,but not top accuracy.

Attached Files

mrbill2 posted this 07 April 2009

Back about 5 months ago I got some buttets that I wanted to try before buying the molds. One of the bullets was a Lyman 311644. Bullet on the left. At that time it was one that seemed to work best in my gun, so I purchased the mold. When my mold came I was suprised to see that my mold was different. The bullet in the middle. Same mold # but different. They made a change to the lube groves on the front of the bullet. Why, who knows. See picture.

In a day or so I cast bullets from the mold and gave them a try. Well they didn't shoot as well as the ones I had given to me. When I measured them the nose was small .298. Thinking that this was the problem I call Lyman and they agreed to fix the mold. I waited 4 weeks for the replacement. When I cast some bullets from that mold they were even smaller. In fact the rear driving bands only miked .308. Called Lyman again and was told to return the mold along with some sample bullets I had cast from that mold. All the bullets that I had sent back, both times were cast from Lyman #2 alloy as instructed.

After 8 weeks of waiting and no mold I call Lyman again. I talked to a person in customer service hoping they could fill me in on what was going on. The man at customer service looked for the mold on his computer and said that they still had the mold. When I asked him if he could tell me when I might expect the replacement, he told me ” All I can tell you is what is on my computer screen. Yes we have the mold. ” He didn't have any more information. End of call.

Three more weeks passed and sure enough the mold arrived. When I opened the mold and looked at the cavities, my first thought was they sent me the wrong mold. I just couldn't believe it. All this time waiting and the wrong mold. Eleven weeks. After some time to cool down I again looked at the mold. It wasn't the wrong mold, THEY AGAIN changed the mold design. Now, they eliminated all the lube grooves on the front of the bullet. It's going to be a long time before I buy from Lyman again, if ever. Now if you deside buy a Lyman 311644 mold, it's a crap shoot which one you will get. All depends on who you buy from and their inventory at the time.

"The bullet mold from hell.” I am just totally discussed with the whole thing ! Mr Bill2

 

mrbill2

Attached Files

runfiverun posted this 08 April 2009

as of late lymans qc has totally sucked, their molds are too small, and their customer service is even worse. they spend more time fixing molds for customers then they do actually producing new ones. i have traditionally liked their molds and have been wanting to get more of their 4 cavs. but they cannot seem to get their act together.

Attached Files

JetMech posted this 08 April 2009

I feel your pain, brother. I have 7 Lyman molds. 3 of them cast bullets from #2 that just borders on acceptable diameter. One is under-size. Of the 4 that cast as-advertised diameters, one is out of round and goes thru the sizer to true it up. I don't know what to think about that 311644! All I can say is that for the price they charge, the custom mold makers are going to be getting my business. 

Attached Files

CB posted this 10 April 2009

In my opinion only, Lyman may be on its way out. Lyman is nothing near the company it used to be. I just heard from a guy I shoot with that he can't get any Lyman gun sights. He was told him that Lyman has dropped their line of gun sights.............Dan

If enough shooters keep complaining to them about their junky molds, that'd probably push them over the edge. Rightly so if they can't manufacture molds right to start with.

Attached Files

Billyfish posted this 30 May 2011

Gentlemen,

Maybe I should say irate owners of the infamous 311644.

About a week ago I purchased a 311644 .. no groves forward of the driving bands, see MrBill2's bullet on the right.

I have not had a chance to test (by shooting), at all.

Here are the dimensions.

Not sure of what cavity and I did lap in the mold for better release. Which helped release.

The following varies about +.000 -.003

Measured, starting from base to nose

Back driving band .. .311 Next forward band .. .308 Base of nose (forward of grease grove) .. .307 End of nose before ojive .. .297

Quite a bit of variance between the 4 bullets. They are cast in Wheel weighs and tin (my Lyman #2). I start here to check the mold and casting ability, then move to lino.

From what I am reading .. I think I have a dog.

I would rather have a single cavity, and softer metal. I had heat problems and cold lap problems.

 But does yours shoot ??? If so, what configuration ??

I just need a decent 30 caliber mold. I am leaning to .312 and a bore rider. What about RCBS ??

Take Care,

Peter Brown

Attached Files

Close