1909 Argentine mauser with a shot out barrel

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  • Last Post 10 August 2009
chboats posted this 21 April 2009

I recently acquired (free)a 1909 Argentine Mauser carbine.  It is in excellent condition with a very smooth, tight action.  The problem is that the bore is oversized, shot out and about as smooth as 100 grit sand paper.  I lapped the bore and was able to smooth it to about 240 grit. I then slugged the bore to find out just how bad it was.  The measurements are closer to an 8mm than a 7.65.  The bore diameter is .312 (.315 near the throat) and the grove is .320.  I thought about just using an 8mm mold and sizing them to about .321.  I sized a case neck up to .320 in an 8mm size die but was unable to chamber the empty case.  The chamber neck is only .345. I have looked for a replacement barrel but so far have not found one.

 

I would like to keep the gun close to original and be able to shoot it.  Is it a lost cause with out puting a new manufacture barrel on it, which is a lot more than I can afford.  

Carl

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JeffinNZ posted this 21 April 2009

Well, if I had picked up such a rifle for free and had no reason to keep it as original I would drop a new barrel on it in .30cal and chamber to .308 for a nice shooter.  You may pick up an ex .30cal target shooters barrel with lots of life left in it. 

Cheers from New Zealand

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runfiverun posted this 22 April 2009

turn the case necks down some 345-321 = 13/4 equals too thin. but having the neck in the chamber opened up, is a viable option then you could use a 32 special or 32-40 boolit mold. and be able to shoot them at 1900 or so with no problems. you could even have a slightly longer neck cut in there too. reform your brass from the 0-6 case and eliminate some of that long throat at the same time. lee should be able to make a die set for a reasonable price. or even cut down an 8mm-06 die set.

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chboats posted this 22 April 2009

Thanks for the ideas. Why I didn't think of turning the case necks I don't know. If I take them down to .012 or .013 thickness that should give enough room for a snug fit in the chamber. How thin is too thin? Most 30-30 brass is .011/.012 thick.

If I have to change the barrel I like the idea of using a used target barrel. I would still have to have it chambered and installed.

I just can't see letting this very clean and smooth carbine sit around

Carl

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Mark Wakefield posted this 04 May 2009

Carl;

        I have been going round and round with a 1895 7mm mauser Lowe Berlin ect

Nice long barrel. With a real fat DIA bore. Sooo I jacked out the bullet to fit the bore. Then the loaded round hits in the neck. I may need to neck ream my 7mm also.

BUT to fix your find a bullet search.

                                        I looked in a Lyman catolog and found this mold for you. Cast bullet # 314299 and I just bought one on ebay. The man used it in a 1909 Arge so it must have worked in the bore you have.

Flash I just cast up some of these small littel smart pills “yes tonight.” The over all cast bullet out side DIA  is .314 and its a 200g cast bullet. 

Send me a PM if I'm to send some up to you soon, Buddy Mark Wakefield

I saw a replacement 1909 barrel in 7mm but it was 28 and 1/2 or so inchs long this was on Gunbroker it started out with the price of $21.00 dollars  >>   forthehunt.com>> well some thing like that. But who wants to go around with a Ger 7mm like I have?????? Its like dance'n in a 3 leaged race>>??

    :lovecast:

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hunterspistol posted this 07 May 2009

 Once in a while, for reference this is real handy.

http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm>http://www.three-peaks.net/bulletmolds.htm

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jimkim posted this 07 May 2009

I was thinking a 316475 would be a good mould for that rifle. Maybe rechambering it to 8mm-06 would help.

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Mark Wakefield posted this 07 May 2009

 

 

 My Yugo 24/47 has a 321 max dia

Gun broker had a 21 inch long barrel 7mm off a CZ 24

forthehunt,com or some thing like that

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chboats posted this 07 May 2009

Thanks Mark and jimkim I have a 314299 that I shoot in an 03A3 but it won't even touch the top of the lands in the throat. I am going to get an 8mm mold and try that after I trim the case necks so it will have enough room in the chamber. The throat area measures .319/321 for the first 1/2 inch. When I said that it was shot out I mean it is shot out with .004/5 clearance on each side of the bullet in the throat with a .312 bullet that the factory round is loaded with. I would love to find a replacement 7.65 barrel for it but I have looked a 4 or 5 Argentine 7.65 carbine barrels but they are in about the same condition.  My first goal was to keep it close to  orginal and not spend too much money but it looks like if I want to turn it into a shooter it will need a new manufacture barrel. 

Thanks Carl

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galenaholic posted this 07 May 2009

Check your E-mail.

Paul B.

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WILDCATT posted this 13 May 2009

gun parts advertized them.

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chboats posted this 13 May 2009

WILDCATT Are you referring to e-gunparts.com or Numrich arms. If you are, they do not list the carbine barrel only the 29 inch rifle barrel and do not have that in stock with a note to check back in 30 to 60 day. The note has been there for the last year.

If you are not referring to e-gunparts.com please send me their web sight

Thanks

Carl

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CB posted this 13 May 2009

What about trying to get the barrel relined? I recall there is a post on here somewhere that talks about that subject. I bet Ed Harris would know a thing or two about this.

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chboats posted this 11 June 2009

An update on the Mauser. I opted for the least expensive route first. I bought a Lyman 8mm mold 323470. I chose for this mold because it has almost no nose. I push the bullet nose first into a .321 die and size the top half of the bullet so it will enter the throat far enough to bring the GC up to the bottom of the neck. I then lube the bullet in a .325 die. I had to turn the necks of the brass to a wall thickness of .011 to be able to chamber the round with the over sized bullet.

Loaded the bullet on top of 16gr of 2400 for a start load to see if it would at least keep them headed in the same direction. I have run about 100 rounds through it with what I consider good results. I have been able to keep most of the groups to 3” or less at 100yds. A couple of times I have put 5 in 1 1/2” which I think is great. The biggest problem I am having is getting used to the sights and the short sight radius.

Paul B. I wasn't able to use the barrel I got from you because the threaded area is longer and the other diameters not the same. It was a good try.

Thanks

Carl

Dam this is fun!!

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BruceV posted this 11 June 2009

Shazam!!! That is the kind of shooting that would make even the Sgt. proud of Gomer! Seriously, your results are excellent. Your approach not only preserves the rifle but allows you to get results most likely fully the equal of what would be obtained with ball ammo. You are to be commended. Maybe you can post some pictures of the rifles, targets, etc. Sincerely. Bruce.

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chboats posted this 11 June 2009

BruceV I need to make a correction to my last post. Before I edited it, it claimed 3” groups at 1000yds (I wish). It now tells the truth 3” at 100yds. I got a little carried away with the zeros.  3” at 1K yds ought to be a record or the first liar doesn't stand a chance.

Thanks Carl

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BruceV posted this 12 June 2009

I caught your excess of zeros. However, you are firing a carbine. The interior condition of the barrel is far less than optimal. So this particular Gomer thinks that “Shazam!” is just about a perfect response to your accomplishment. What might have been thought only a wall hanger is now brought back from the edge of oblivion and put into service. Excellent! Sincerely. Bruce.

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Ed Harris posted this 12 June 2009

I would not turn necks thinner than 0.011 because they will be fragile and not last long, but your results sound OK and you have a useable rifle. If I was in your boat I'd ask around and see if anyone either has a .308 or 7.62 NATO sporting or service grade (not match) reamer which cuts a neck which runs just a wee bit large. The usual minimum chamber in a sporting or ordinary 7.62 NATO service grade chamber is .346, whereas a boltgun match chamber would be .339-.340 A .347 neck would let you shoot a .322 bullet with .012 neck, and you can probably achieve this with a common reamer and use plentiful .308 brass with “fat” bullets which fit.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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chboats posted this 14 June 2009

Thanks Ed

I formed 50 cases from 30-06 brass that I am using now. I have access to a couple of different 30 cal reamers. The chamber necks cut by those reamers are not large enough based on the brass fired in those chambers. Is it possible to lap out the neck, with fired cases, a few thousands with out screwing thing up worse than they already are?

Carl

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WILDCATT posted this 14 June 2009

numrich has barrels for around $50 for 1909.TED

edit as a posting says no barrels.

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chboats posted this 15 June 2009

BruceV you ask for it

I got out to the range today and a great day it was. Very little wind overcast (better to see the sights) and 70 degrees. Shot another 50 rounds through the Argentine Mauser with about the same results. Attached are a couple of the targets. Have shot a few better and several worse. These are typical. I have a lot of trouble seeing the sights but that is my 60+ eyes. All things considered, I am quite happy with the way it shoots. Also are a couple pictures of the rifle

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