VV 135 or Varget in the 30-30

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  • Last Post 01 May 2009
CB posted this 27 April 2009

Is anyone using either of these in the 30-30? If so how are they working out accuracy wise. I'm not looking for a pipsqueak load. Figure around 2050 fps with a 175 gr LBT. 

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JeffinNZ posted this 27 April 2009

Pat.

Varget is made by ADI and is sold down here as AR2208.  See this from the ADI site for .30-30 loading jacketed.

170 AR2208 24” 29.5 1976 -  33.0 2168

Cheers from New Zealand

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GBertolet posted this 28 April 2009

I am using Varget in my 30-30 contender carbine. I use 28gr with the Lyman 311291 bullet. My bullets weigh in at about 175 gr. It shoots great, 3 shot groups usually run around an inch if I do my part.  I use the Lee collet neck sizer and using .310 as cast dia. bullets with Gar alox. Pressures must be fairly low as I haven't had to full length size yet. I am getting around 1850 fps with this load. You can easily go up to 32gr to get your desired velocity. Varget can be difficult to get at times. I just got a 8 pounder from Natchez. I had to scan the usual suppliers on the internet several times a day, until I happened to just hit as the shipment came in, and it was sold out 2 hours later. Timing is everythng.

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corerf posted this 28 April 2009

Pat,

I did not have good results with Varget and the 30-30 but I was using a super 14 contender and jacketed bullets. I also used BL-C2 with little success. Those were powders that were above 80% case cap density. Trying to get above 2300 fps on a 14 inch barrel. Neither loading down nor up helped. The federal factory ammo used low density loading, seen when decapped. The 30-30 “for me” did not pan out with either of those powders. Groups were 1.5 inch-2 inch which is common for a factory TC barrel but lack luster for TC's in general. I expected to get down to .5 inch at 100 from a solid rest and no wind. I got nowhere near that. That Federal factory ammo shot a few .75 groups and mostly RIGHT AT 1 inch.

Have you checked the Lee second edition for other CB data?? That is the largest amount of CB data and modern powders that I have been able to find. 4895 and H4895 are poss.

Seems like Varget was a bit too slow for the barrel length. If your using a longer barrel, you may be in great shape. I got my best groups with BL-C2, Varget was terrrible. So barrel length may have been the culprit. I sold the barrel knowing that it was NOT a shooter and procurred a Bullberry Custom. I will be using exclusively (after breakin) cast bullets and I will have better info on BL-C2 which was my intended powder. Lemme know as this is a pet caliber for me. I can't get Varget right  now, on deep backorder so as soon as an 8 lb container comes in,. I shall pursue the new 30-30 barrel with a mold I think you sold me.

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CB posted this 28 April 2009

Guys,

I'll be shooting it out of a Browning 1885 with a 26 inch tube. The reason I'm going to try the powders I mentioned is because they're the ones I have the most of. I just started playing with the gun so haven't shot anything else in it except for 27 grs. of 135 when fireforming the 20 rounds 38-55 brass. I intend to use a 175 gr LBT spitzer in it but came across some 175 LFNs yesterday I had cast so I heat treated them last night just to get it out to the range tomorrow. I think my biggest problem with this thing is going to be learning how to shoot a gun that has an ice skating blade for a forend. I'm pretty used to those 3 inch wide stocks. Once I see how it shoots I'll start looking around for some 30 American brass that doesn't break the bank so I can try a SR primer.

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corerf posted this 28 April 2009

Lee shows 32 gr of Varget at ~2100 fps at 38kpsi with CB. That long of a barrel with Varget should be able to get whatever vel you want. I have found varget to be very INsensitive. It takes a big change in volume to make a small change in vel. and for that, your SD should be very minute. I like Varget for my 22-250. Good luck.

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jimkim posted this 28 April 2009

Hodgdon lists 29.5gr of Varget as their starting load with the Sierra 170gr FP. The listed pressure is 30,200 CUP. I would start with Sierra's starting load(27.2gr) and work up. I know this is jacketed data, but it should get you in the ballpark.

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CB posted this 29 April 2009

I asked the question so thought I'd give my findings. Varget didn't do squat but 135 showed some potential. Now I'll tell you what I really learned about shooting a Browning 1885 in 30-30 with a 175 gr bullet going over 2000 fps from sandbags.

  1. Whoever decided it was a good idea to put a curved steel butt plate on anything with more recoil than a Red Rider must be directly related to Josef Mengele.

  2. It is possible to shoot inch and a half groups with your eyes screwed shut in anticipation of getting socked in the shoulder by Ironman.

  3. Make absolutely certain when shooting a gun with a curved steel butt plate that your shoulder is squarely in the middle of the plate and not resting against one of the pointy spots.

  4. Whoever can shoot one of these things without the crosshairs wandering all over the target, especially with you eyes screwed shut, is made of cement,

  5. Two sweatshirts and a half inch of shoulder fat is no barrier to pain against a 175 gr bullet traveling over 2000 fps when steel rests against it.

  6. 60 shots with an 1885 in 30-30 going over 2000 fps causes headaches.

  7. I'm a sissy.

  8. Purple bruises are much more attractive than yellow and add a splash of color to an otherwise fish belly white body.

And finally

9. A 175 gr bullet going under 1500 fps has a lot more going for it than I originally thought 

Bottom line, I already have a gun that shoots fast so to even the beam and keep nature in perfect harmony I need one that shoots slow. Anyone have any good 30-30 loads using Blue Dot or Unique????

Pat

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jimkim posted this 29 April 2009

Try 10.0gr of Unique, 13.0gr of Blue Dot. Both should put you around 1500fps.

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redball2 posted this 29 April 2009

Pat I played with a H&r 30-30 one of my sons had 35 years ago and the bullet I used was 311466 fairly hard, have forgoten the alloy and don't have the notes. the powder was 3031, I think about 29 grains. my nephews wife ended up with the rifle and shot a couple of coytes with it when they were feeding cattle in the winter. about the pointed butt plates. my grand kids ended up with an ubertie 40-65 to shoot in the quigley. it has one of those  tourture devices. they got a shooters friend from cabelas or one of the other dealers. with a shoulder slip on pad they were able to shoot the course. Brother was 9 and weighed less than 60 pounds and Afton 12 and about 70 pounds. they did as well as I, of course I can't hardly hold the rifle anymore. the load was 51 grains of goex cartridge and saeco 370 grain bullet one to thirty. the course is 48 shots. Brother lost to a little red headed girl. just like in peanuts!

Jim Wilcox

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KenK posted this 29 April 2009

pat i. wrote: 7. I'm a sissy.

Pat

I hate recoil myself.  I bought one of those PAST recoil pads to shoot my Marlin .44 magnum (with sissy loads) off the bench.  The kind that goes on kind of like a shoulder holster.

Try 8 grains of 2400.

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CB posted this 29 April 2009

Jim you must have some bionic grand kids!!

I'm hoping to give the gun a go round in the CBA production class so will just find a load that doesn't beat me up. I dug out a nice looking LBT 185 gr spitzer that might be just the ticket at a less punishing speed.

I readily admit I'm a pantywaist when it comes to recoil but I'm not quite to the point (yet) of admitting to myself that I have to strap an over-sized sanitary napkin to my shoulder to tackle a gun. With this rifle I'll go about it the manly way and just pretend I'm one of those gentlemanly type single shot shooters that shoot si... I mean mild loads.:D

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Crooked Creek posted this 01 May 2009

Hi pat,

 I know of what you speak !

 I have two of the 1885 Win. High Walls like your 30-30, except mine are a 38-55 shooting 335 gr. cast and a 45-90 shooting 550 gr. cast. I know what you mean, they can create and “ouch factor” that one begins to anticipate, so to speak, but......I kinda like it, you know you've been shooting something! I also have two Browning BPCR's in 40-65 and 45-70 that have the “shotgun style” butt (still steel, though) and weigh about 3-4 pounds more than the 1885's which results in a "more pleasant shooting experience” !! On the other end of the recoil spectrum, I have two Browning Low Wall repro's in .357 Mag. and .45 Colt which are fun guns, and real pussy cats by comparison.

Keep having  FUN  with it,

 Roger Allen

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