Marlin 1894 CB Limited Load

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  • Last Post 05 August 2009
COMike posted this 09 July 2009

I recently picked up one of these fine rifles in 44 mag.  I shoot silhouette with it.  Pistol Cartridge only for now but I may try the 200 yard match to see if the 44 can bring down the rams.

Having trouble with the load.  Shooting Oregon Trail 240g RNFP in front of Unique powder.  Have run powder loads in .5 gr spreads from 7 to 11. 

At 100 yards off a bench, I can not get a group better than 4” and most are closer to 6"

The tightest group was with 11g and with a 5 shot group of 3.97” at 100 yards. Closest 3 rounds in this group were 1.60".  I know this is 1g over maximum load according to several sources but the cases and primer show no signs of excessive pressure.

Next closest group was 10g with a spread of 4.24” and closest 3 @ 1.57".

Unique was recommended by some good shooters in the silhouette game to me and by a guy that has the same exact rifle.  Not sure where I should go from here.  I was expecting this rifle off a bench to shoot something in the 2” catagory with a well tuned load.  Am I expecting too much from this rifle?

Thanks for any feedback

 

 

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KenK posted this 09 July 2009

COMike wrote:   I was expecting this rifle off a bench to shoot something in the 2” catagory with a well tuned load.  Am I expecting too much from this rifle?

  With that rifle and load I would expect it to shoot just about like you have described.

What kind of sights are you using?  To get 2 moa at 100 yards is going to leave you little error for sighting troubles.

The first thing to do is get some better bullets and try other (slower) powders.  You might have some bedding problems.  Might need to work on your shooting technique, these rifles are very fussy about how you hold them.

I have the same rifle, It took me about a thousand rounds worth of load development and bench time to get 1” groups at fifty yards with aperture sights front and rear. 

 

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COMike posted this 09 July 2009

Shooting buckhorn sights on it. I have the same sights on a Winchester 30-30 and have no issues getting 1-1/2” groups at 100 yards. I hear the Laser Cast bullets are about as good a quality as you can find for cast bullets and have friends that shoot them out of this rifle quite well. I have some BlueDot, maybe I will try this to see if the rifle likes it any better...

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Ed Harris posted this 10 July 2009

Even a young man with good eyesight isn't going to do much better than 3-4 m.o.a. with a lever action rifle using buckhorn sights. The inherent sighting errors with the short sight radius and crude sight picture are too great. You should be able to reduce groups about 25 percent by going to a peep sight, thanks to better centering and due its longer sight radius. A traditional style tang sight can be used in Cowboy matches and gives very good results while staying within the spirit of the game.

You may improve accuracy somewhat by trying softer alloys, and heavier bullets of somewhat larger diameter in subsonic loads which are not subject to transonic buffeting downrange. I have good results using a 270-290-gr. ogvial; flatnosed bullet unsized at .433 diameter, cast 10-11 BHN, lubricated with a very light film of Lee Liquid Alox and either 8.2 grs. of Unique or 7 grs. of Bullseye. Adjust charge as needed to keep the velocity in the range of 1050 +/-30 f.p.s. It should do an inch and a half at 50 yards, 3 moa or better, with linear dispersion out to 200 yards. 

A custom mould from LBT made to exactly fit your rifle from a throat slug or chamber cast provides much higher confidence of getting the long range results you want than taking the “luck of the draw” hoping to use anyone's production mould block cut with a cherry. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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COMike posted this 10 July 2009

Thanks for the feedback Ed. I am sure that better sights will improve things a bit. i don't have time in my schedule to cast my own bullets so must buy production from someone and work up the best load possible. I have had lots of feedback on how well Unique works with these bullets and this rifle. I have a large supply of it to boot so it just seemed like the one to try make work.

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Ed Harris posted this 10 July 2009

What diameter are your bullets?

If you have a choice from your supplier, bigger in diameter is better. See if you can get something at least .430, bigger up to .432-.433 if possible.   Come commercial suppliers will let you buy unsized, unlubed bullets in bulk.  It doesn't hurt to ask.  Some seasonally run popular BCR and cowboy bullets in softer 1:20 alloy if you buy in 100-pound lots.  You could then coat these in Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) yourself and shoot them unsized.

It's worth trying a light overcoat of Lee Liquid Alox on the bullets you have. Use just enough film lube to turn the bullets a uniform brassy color all over, right on top of the hard blue lube the commercial bullets come with. All you wantis a light wash. For this purpose I dilute LLA with equal parts by liquid volume of clean mineral spirits or Varsol, and use about a tablesppon full for a 4x4 box of 500 bullets.

What works very well is a plastic Folgers coffee can with lid and just up end the container end for end about 20 times, then pour them out onto a cookie sheet covered with waxed paper to dry completely before loading.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Glenn R. Latham posted this 10 July 2009

Mike, Your Marlin 44 will have plenty of power to knock down the rams at 200 yards/meters. The revolver shooters do it all the time. You might need a hotter load, depending on how they are set, or better yet a heavier bullet, around 280-300 grs. Glenn

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hunterspistol posted this 10 July 2009

      I'm just going to pop in here with the generic, factory info.  According to the new Lyman 49th Edition Handbook the real darling of cast bullets is going to be 2400 (2400 magnum powder).  Rifle data section shows 296 and IMR 4227 in use.  Just a thought.

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runnin lead posted this 10 July 2009

The range where I shoot BPCR silhouette has mild steel targets ,they use the same targets for the lever matches with a 1,200 fps velocity restriction to avoid target damage . To play the game I had to develop a reduced load. I made a couple phone calls & the guy down the street had a few pounds of Universal Clays 7.5 gr with a standard LP primer & 240 gr sized to .430 did well .When I get around to it I would like to try 7.5 as well as 7.3,7.4,7.6 & 7.7 sized to .430 & .431 with the rifle scoped for testing purposes.Normaly I use 21.0 IMR 4227 for a 240gr for revolver & rifle

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COMike posted this 11 July 2009

Just before I bought the rifle, I gave a can of 2400 away as I didn't thing I would need it for anything. I am thinking that may have been a mistake

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KenK posted this 11 July 2009

Ten grains of Blue Dot works fairly well in my rifle.  A case full of H-4198 is another good load.

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COMike posted this 11 July 2009

Ken, is that Blue Dot target at 100 yards? Even at 50, it is a pretty good group

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COMike posted this 11 July 2009

Laser Cast says their bullets are sized to .431

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KenK posted this 11 July 2009

It is at fifty.  I have never wanted to put a scope on this rifle and with my vision, minute of pie plate is about as good as I can do with iron sights at 100 yards.

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KenK posted this 11 July 2009

COMike wrote: Laser Cast says their bullets are sized to .431

I actually bought some laser cast bullets when I first bought this rifle.  I wasn't casting at the time.  I could never get them to shoot.

I think I still have 2-3 hundred of them left that I had planned to add to the melting pot.  Make an offer if you want them.  I'll toss in a few good home cast bullets.  PM if interested

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COMike posted this 11 July 2009

runnin lead wrote: The range where I shoot BPCR silhouette has mild steel targets ,they use the same targets for the lever matches with a 1,200 fps velocity restriction to avoid target damage . To play the game I had to develop a reduced load. I made a couple phone calls & the guy down the street had a few pounds of Universal Clays 7.5 gr with a standard LP primer & 240 gr sized to .430 did well .When I get around to it I would like to try 7.5 as well as 7.3,7.4,7.6 & 7.7 sized to .430 & .431 with the rifle scoped for testing purposes.Normaly I use 21.0 IMR 4227 for a 240gr for revolver & rifle

Which range are you shooting at in Colorado? I know the Golden Gun Club shoots both lever action matches Rifle and Pistol Caliber and the Aurora Gun Club offers Pistol Caliber.

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runnin lead posted this 11 July 2009

Mike I shoot at Rifle,BPCR Silhouette is 4th Sat the lever shoot is on a Sunday , only made the one lever match last year , I play hockey on Sundays. I may need to skip a day of muzzleloading season CRC (Byers ) has a Sat BPCR Creedmore ,the other 3 this year are Sundays. Byers 4hr10-15min drive , Watkins about 3 1/2

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GBertolet posted this 11 July 2009

A lot of those Marlin 44mag guns have super slow twists, which often have trouble stabilizing heavyweight bullets. If you are planning to use them, try to get a few samples to try before buying in bulk. I have a Marlin in 45 LC and get about the same size groups as you do.

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COMike posted this 05 August 2009

Well, I am still working on getting a load that will shoot in this rifle. Figured I better work out some sights to start. Going to go with a Marbles Tang sight and replace the front with a thinner Marbles model as well. The 1/16th gold dot. Marlin says the stock sight height is 3/8” but mine measures about .500 from the bottom of the dovetail to top of sight. I have no way of knowing if this sight had ever been replaced. Anyone have any idea on the front sight? The model I have is the 1894 CB Limited with the 24” barrel. Anyone have this rifle with the stock front sight? If so, what is the height of your sight measured from the bottom of the dovetail slot to top of sight? I don't want to order one too high for the Marbles replacement tang sight... Thanks for the feedback

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Ed Harris posted this 05 August 2009

If you will be shooting 200 yards with the Marbles tang sight a .375 to .400 front sight will work fine. The .500 sight works OK at 50 yards, but will require alot more elevation at 200. I like a square post and use the XS .100 x.400 sight on mine.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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COMike posted this 05 August 2009

I bought this rifle mainly to shoot pistol caliber cartridge silhouette where the targets are from 40 yards on chicken to 100 yards on the rams.  There are a number of people that tell me this rifle will work great on the full size silhouette targets out to the 200 yard line.

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