Which mold

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  • Last Post 18 March 2010
res45 posted this 15 December 2009

I have access to a friends equipment to do my casting with,I did my first casting secession this past weekend and cast about 400 158 gr. SWC for my 38/357 and they turned out great.   Now I have the bug and want to cast some bullets for my x39 SKS rifles and my Mosin M44.

I shot the Lee traditions grease groove design with GC version in my SKS with excellent results,they were sent to me by a friend to test out.  Since my budget is pretty low I'm thinking about going with the tumble lube design CTL312-160-2R for now.

We have a pretty nice stash of WW alloy and more on the way from various sources,since I'm going to be doing them myself now are there any benefits to one mold over the other as far as the two Lee offerings in the 155 or 160 gr. range.  Will water quenching  be a good idea as a rule of thumb for rifle bullets?

a few other questions are gas check necessary and if so what is the correct size of check for that bullet.  Also if I do not use a check what Muzzle velocity do I need to stay under?  I know bullet hardness/size/pressure or lack there of has a lot to do with leading and I can work that out once I get my bullet cast and sized properly.

I plan on slugging the bore on both rifles this weekend but I know they both shoot jacketed .310 in the SKS and .311 in the M44 although that may not translate to much as fas as the cast bullets go.  Any ideas or help appreciated.  Thanks Ron

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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hunterspistol posted this 15 December 2009

:coffee I'm the other Ron on a low budget!  As for water quenching for rifle bullets, I like to water drop when I need a bullet to go 1900 fps or so, the 30-06 range of speed. My idea is to set the bucket a few feet behind me so, that I have to turn around and take a step to drop them. This keeps you from splashing water to close to hot lead- an explosion powered by steam would ensue. Wipe the bottom of the mold on a towel before holding it over the lead pot, that last drop can shoot lead all over. In my hair, on my glasses, I've never done that.

     As far as gas checks go, it appears you want a 30 caliber gas check, Hornady crimp on seem to perform a little better.  If your bullets are exact size to .002” over, you'll do fine. As far as I can tell, the guys using tumble lube are using it thick, in two coats.  Personally, that isn't the equipment I use. But there are a lot of cheaper tricks that work really good so, I can't put any of it down.

     I use gas checks and water dropping about 1800 fps.  I have a 22 Hornet pistol that I use straight wheelweight, air cooled (without water quench) and gas checks. As far as I can tell, the gas check puts more pressure on the center of the bullet, causing the elasticity of the lead to swell the middle bearing surfaces of the bullet out to meet the rifling. That means it has more accuracy because it's pushing on more of the bullet rather than just the base, in theory, that is.

Ron

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argie1891 posted this 15 December 2009

just wondering how the gas check can cause the powder gas to push more on the center of a bullet than on the edge. seems that the pressure would be about equal on the entire surface of the bottom of the bullet. just wondering. joe gifford aka argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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res45 posted this 15 December 2009

I appreciate all the input,the 357 bullets were all air cooled I mostly shoot them in my 38 and 357 target loads.  I also double tumble lube them with two coats and have no leading problems shot as cast.

On the water drop bullet I like to place an old towel over the top of the 5 gal. water bucket with a little slack in it to form a V trap with a slit in the middle so the bullet rolls down the side of the towel and into the water with no splash back.

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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res45 posted this 20 December 2009

Well I guess the first order of business is to slug the bore on both my SKS rifle next week and see what they measure.   Being I pretty new at casting and sizing I will most definitely get back with my measurements and see what you guys think is my best option as far as proper bullet size I need to shoot for.  

Going to order one of the Lee .312 molds after Christmas cast some bullets for my WW alloy and see how they measure out,I want to cast a few and make sure I get  the right GC.   Here is my first batch of 38/357 bullets I casted turned out pretty good only had to cull about 10 out of the 400 I cast.  I have a small batch sized and as cast lubed up and drying now to see how they do.

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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tturner53 posted this 20 December 2009

Nice job on the slugs! I use that same bullet in a variety of guns, works great. There's a lot of info here on reloading the 7.62x54r, I'm just scrstching the surface myself. Shot in a milsurp silhouete match yesterday, there were several Russian and Finn guns doing very well. Keep the updates coming, it's good to hear what others are doing.  EDIT One thing I've picked up on, the Russian guns can take a pretty fat bullet. .314 or even more will chamber easily in my guns. Better fit means better accuracy, less leading. I don't worry much about groove diameter, just try to fill that throat. I expect to be up to a .316 in my 91/30. A trick I learned is to measure the inside diameter of a fired case, match that or a thousandth under.May be over groove diameter, that's ok. Gas checks are not 'necessary' at low velocity/pressure. Water quenching isn't necessary either, depending on expectations for speed. I'd like to know what those Lees measure? Mine drop about .360 and load and shoot fine in my gun.

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hunterspistol posted this 20 December 2009

  Argie, that's not what I meant, really.  The gas check limits the elasticity of the base somewhat and equals out the pressure, the entire base pushes on the long bearing surface forward of the base, causing it to expand more.  I didn't mean the center of the base, I meant the center section of the bullet, usually where the lube grooves are.

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res45 posted this 28 December 2009

Ok I slugged the bore on my Chinese SKS today,I have previously shot some of the Lee conventional lubed .312 GC 155 gr. bullets before,they were water dropped WW alloy and sized to .311 and they shot  2” groups at 50 yds. I had not previously slugged the bore before I shot these bullets since .310 jacketed bullets are nail drivers in this rifle.

The bore on the Chinese I slugged twice today just to make sure I got the measurements right.  Land to land was .300 groove to groove was .312.  My question is should I go with the Lee sizer in .311 or just shoot the bullet as cast assuming it will drop out at .312 and just use the Lee .314 sizer to apply the gas check.  I plan on using the TL .312 160 gr. Lee design since all my other Lee molds are TL also just make things easier.

I guess my question is also if the bullet drops at .312 will that be a problem with my bore dimensions since I know the .311 already shoots good.  Thanks Ron.

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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amb1935 posted this 28 December 2009

I would load up some as cast and shoot. Generally, an undersized lead bullet results in lead fouling and poor accuracy. I bet if you shot some as cast you would be happy.

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res45 posted this 28 December 2009

Well at the moment that seem to be the plan,cast,TL lube apply GC with no sizing,lube again,load and shoot and go from there.  It will probably be a couple week before I can get any results just ordered the mold today so it will be next week before it arrives.

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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res45 posted this 29 December 2009

I'd like to know what those Lees measure? Mine drop about .360 and load and shoot fine in my gun.

tturner53 the 357 Lee mold drop the bullets at .360 cast for straight WW and air cooled.  I had an old Lee punch through sizer in .358 from my old pan lube days.  I aloxed six let them dry and ran them through the sizer then aloxed them again.  I also double aloxed six with no sizing at all,that was all the empty brass I had.

I shot a couple targets today out in the cold just to see which one worked best,didn't bother setting up the chrono since it was just a quick test to see what they would do.  I don't think I'm going to bother much unless I just want to push them harder. 

I use 13.5 grs. of  IMR-4227 on a hunch which is about middle of the road 357 mag load for me.  The sized bullet group measure 4 1/2” at 25 yds. two flyers my fault caused that,the shot as cast group measured  1 3/4” with no flyer's,I had no leading at all.

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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tturner53 posted this 29 December 2009

1 3/4” is very good shooting. .360 seems to be a good all purpose diameter for my guns. Got a custom mold coming from LBT group buy thru Jeff, it's designed around my Marlin 1894c, but I'm anxious to try it in my handguns too. Might make a good bullet for a 38/200 type load in my old Smith.

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res45 posted this 29 December 2009

I guess I should mention I fired those loads from my Ruger BH convertible 357/9mm.  The 9mm side shoots just as good as the 38/357 does which surprised me.  The 9mm full house loads feel like 22's in that heavy 357 frame. 

Big Brown truck stopped by today,just have to get my molds cleaned up,lubed up and do some casting and see how they turn out. 

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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res45 posted this 05 January 2010

Well I got to use my two new molds over the weekend was pretty cold and time was limited but I cast 200 of the 9mm TL bullets they came out nice using my WW alloy dropped right at .357 and 125 grs. Which is fine because I shoot these out of a Ruger BH convertible.    The .312 mold was a little sticky at first but after I got it heated up good it did fine bullets dropped as cast at .312.5 on the back driving band weight was 165 grs. on average+/- a few tenths with GC and lube applied.

I loaded up a ladder test with some 2400 today for the X39 started at 12.0 grs and increased in .5 gr increments and stopped at 14.0 I still have room to move up a little and if the 2400 doesn't work out I have all the other powders I can try out Reloader#7 seem to be my favorite powder in the two SKS rifle I have.

I also loaded up a few test rds. for my Mosin M44 using the same bullet using 16.0 grs of 2400 wanted to see how that load works in that  rifle and if I get any leading bore slugged out at .312 on the grooves so it might just work.  Hopefully I can get out tomorrow and test my loads if it gets above freezing and the wind dies down some.

 

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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res45 posted this 07 January 2010

Just a little update on where I'm at.  I got out this morning and tested out my M44 54r loads using the Lee TL .312 GC bullet and 16 grs. of 2400.  I loaded up 5 rds. just to see what it would do before I go to far,to make a long story short I set my target at 50 yds. I figured the bullet would probably drop considerably  which it did with the sights set like I have them plus slower MV, it shot about 8 ” low but dead center side to side.  The best thing was no leading and 2” 5 shot group.

My case necks were a little sooty but not a lot,I may have possibly used the wrong expander ball,a couple of the necks had a slight bulge but no feeding problems,I will check that today and also measure the fired case necks inside dia.

I like the 16 gr load of 2400 nice shooting load I may try a few .5 gr increments at 16.5 and 17 even  to see if I get a better neck seal pending on what I find out about the expander ball which I will post my finding later on today.

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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Richard Pickering posted this 10 February 2010

If you want to shoot your SKS as a single shot you can remove the piston. If you let it cycle be sure to clean the piston after shooting. Ed Harris has written extensively about the SKS. It is worth reading. I had a Finn M28-30 for a few years. It liked the Lyman 311299 designed for the 303 Brit rifle. It would accept the bullet with only the GC and a little more seated in the case neck. I used 20gr Accurate 1680 and large pistol primers. Never trust other people's loads without comparing to good data. The Finn rifle had a 308 groove dia. It also had / has very good sights. RP

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res45 posted this 10 February 2010

Thanks Richard I have read about everything I can find on the subject that Mr. Harris wrote over and over the past couple years,I ended up going with Alliant 2400 in both rifle with great results,my SKS loads are shooting either 5 shot clusters all touching or groups less than 1"  I can turn off the gas valve on my Yugo but the brass falls right at my feet so I'm not going to even bother.

No problem with any buildup on the gas piston and in the gas tube so far,I shoot a little bit of everything when I go out shooting and clean up everything afterwards,I'm not sure if I will get to a point shooting the SKS rifles with cast loads that any build up will be a problem,I ran 25 test rds. through both rifles and they were cleaner than after shooting Russian ammo.

'Artisan' in Lead, Brass & Powder.

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biddulph posted this 18 March 2010

Hi all. I love the Lee stuff and most of my gear is from Lee. However, once I tried a Lyman mould I never looked back! The steel moulds require separate handles and they are expensive but for ease of use they can't be beat. Due to steel rather than aluminium construction they require oiling before being put away but that only takes a few seconds and cleaning them is easy in a container with enough white fuel/ petrol or what ever in it too cover the mould and a quick scrub out with a tooth brush. Takes about a minute. Mould is then smoked with butane lighter (once dried of petrol/ gasoline of course!) and then you're ready to go.

The Lyman moulds held up better for me than the Lee ones and seem to 'let go' of the bullet with greater ease than the lee mould. Mayby I got a lemon or was a little harsh with whacking the mould to get the bullet out, but I found that the lee mould ended up not closing properly and needed to be 'jiggled' a bit to close flush.

Cheers James

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