Primer Brands - Is there a difference?

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  • Last Post 31 December 2009
kokojoe posted this 18 December 2009

Yes, I know there must be some difference among primer brands.  The conservative load data cautions against changing any component.

But, from a practical sense, for the average shooter, plinker, reloader etc. (maybe excludes highly competitive or super accuracy needs) - how much of a difference is there?  With the supply difficulties, I've taken what I could get in Winchester, Federal, CCI - the old line brand names that I recognized.  Figured I could not go to wrong with those.

But, how about, for example, Wolfe and Magtech, which seem somewhat more available and less expensive than the rest?  Is there a reason to avoid these to stock up on some extras?

Thoughts, ideas, comments?

Thanks

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72coupe posted this 18 December 2009

There is a lot of difference in brands of primers. Brisance (the amount of spark or flame produced by the primer) varies greatly from one brand to the next. CCI are among the mildest while Federal and Winchester are among the hottest.

Cup hardness varies even among the same brand an example is the Remington 6 1/2 which has a very soft cup and the Remington 7 1/2 which has a very hard cup.

I once worked up a load in 308 that was very hot (2700 fps with a 190 grain Match King) and with Remington 9 1/2s it was fine but if I changed to any other primer it blew up my cases.

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corerf posted this 18 December 2009

I have not seen any DATA on the Wolf and MT primers. There are old charts that compare power factors among manufacturers that I have seen posted on the net for the big mfgrs. I have seen a few reports of folks who have bought the wolf( during the initial phase of Obamarama) and the report was, QUOTE “They go bang when the hammer falls, thats all I need” END QUOTE. It didn't give me much desire to try some but then again.... they may be very consistent. Of course they were also out of stock as well. IIRC, most of the reports were for 223 and pistol useage. I have seen NO reports for Magtech. If you do try them, please advise on your experiences. Cheap, good primers are a good thing!

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JetMech posted this 18 December 2009

Wolfe primers are made in Russia and have been marketed under different names, to include PMC. I have used both them and Wolfe and found them satisfactory in standard rifle loads. Check out this test : http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html>http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html

The PMC (Wolfe) primer has a relatively low brisance which might make it unsuitable for reduced loads with position-sensitive powders. but, as I stated earlier, work fine in standard loads using both smokeless and black powder.

Both primers seem to perform well with no vertical stringing which might indicate ignition issues.

For reduced loads, I stick with Ed Harris's recommendation to use Winchester or Federal, which have powdered glass in them, I believe, which, upon firing, expells a large shower of sparks for consistant ignition without using the high amount of priming material used in magnum primers, so pressures stay low. 

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kokojoe posted this 19 December 2009

Wow, this is very interesting information.  For over a year I've had maybe half a dozen reloading and cast books that I read over and over again - always understanding something I did not before.  This is the first place I've started to see some of this info on primers - and I've looked about a bit.  So, thanks so far.  I hope to see other comments.  I'll save this thread for future reference.

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corerf posted this 19 December 2009

Holy mackerel Bill thats good data. Table shows PMC displaying the lowest ES of all primers tested and with the lowest charge energy (good and bad pending useage). With that said, if the PMC/Russian Wolf primers render no ignition problems, they may be best suited (small rifle) for the smaller rifle and pistol bottleneck cases like the hornet, bee, fireball, etc. Ball powder may show problems ingiting based on the visual data but granular, flake and tubular charges with lots of edges “should” do well.

That article is HUGE in it's scope, even though the testing was very narrow to one caliber and primer size. It's enough for me to order some Wolf small pistol primers for a k-hornet to test for poss improved es and try with 357 mag. Thank you for making that link available Bill. Wolf may not be a cheap substitute but could become a first choice for specific apps.

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KenK posted this 20 December 2009

I guess I don't have anything accurate enough for it to matter.  I mostly used CCI in the past but got some Federal match primers and Winchester primers in recent years and couldn't really prove to myself that it made any difference in my guns.  I've also tried pistol primers with most of my light cast bullet loads and they work fine but again; I didn't note any definite difference in accuracy.

I've shot a few boxes of Magtech ammunition and thought it was as good as any so I would certainly try their primers.

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corerf posted this 20 December 2009

Ken if you shoot the hornet, it's sensitive enough to show you like a slap in the face, the primer change effect. Barrel builder Fred Smith recommended SP match primers to reduce primer shove behind the bullet and allow for more powder which is more consistent in building pressure (so he has said). I tried it and it is true what he has stated but it did VERY LITTLE in reducing the GROUP SIZE. But from the looks of the high speed photos, even the federal 205 might be a flame thrower compared to a Wolf counterpart. That is my hopes anyway.

30-06 though, the chrono sees it but my target shows nothing. So I agree that it likely takes a very accurate, sensitive gun to give the resolution needed. My 10 inch pistol at 100 yards is NOT that tool. Neither is my 30-06, and I don't think I am up to the task most days.

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c3d4b2 posted this 27 December 2009

Here is a second primer reference.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html>http:////www.castingstuff.com/primertestingreference.htm

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codarnall posted this 27 December 2009

Several years ago I discovered very high  failure rate with CCI's, that is, more failures in a life time of loading (45 yrs).  I still use the primers from the those lots as generally they will go bang but for nothing serious.  As many as three per hundred failed. SP LP and Magnums.  My favorites are definitely WW.  I've used rifle in pistol and visa versa for years w/o a problem. Charlie

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cityboy posted this 27 December 2009

codarnall wrote: Several years ago I discovered very high  failure rate with CCI's, that is, more failures in a life time of loading (45 yrs).  I still use the primers from the those lots as generally they will go bang but for nothing serious.  As many as three per hundred failed. SP LP and Magnums.  My favorites are definitely WW.  I've used rifle in pistol and visa versa for years w/o a problem. Charlie

My experience is just the opposite. I fired in bullseye competion for about 40 years and used nothing but CCI primers in the 45acp.

Jim

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codarnall posted this 27 December 2009

Fine, I just reported a fact.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 28 December 2009

I had a problem with CCI SP primers in about 1987 where the primer cup seemed brittle or hard and I had poor ignition and an occasional misfire.  This was in a Smith mod 19 revolver.  They shot more reliably in my TC Contender, so I thought that the hard primer cup had an adverse affect on ignition.  I would think that something like the colt 1911 would have sufficient hammer spring to over come a hard primer and would go unnoticed.  Duane

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JetMech posted this 28 December 2009

c3d4b2, thanks for the excellent reference. I've added it to my library.

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biddulph posted this 28 December 2009

I experienced non fires and hang fires using CCI primers in compressed loads with .375 H&H AI. I changed to using Federal or Winchester and did not experience a recurrence.

Mind you, this is a very small sample so I'm not putting it forward as a universal!

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Ed Harris posted this 28 December 2009

While my favorite primers are Federal or Winchester when I can get them, I have used all of the popular brands when supplies were limited and I was less fussy.

I find the Russian PMC and Wolf small pistol primers, as well as the various lead-free and nontoxic primers used in some LE training ammo require a heavier strike and that they are more likely to produce misfires in DA revolvers with light after-market spring kits, bobbed hammers or target action jobs which reduce hammer throw.

Accuracy and ballistic uniformity-wise the Wolf and PMC primers have been just fine.

Over the years I have had more primer cup failures with Remington primers than with any other brand. Some years ago they had a shipment of brass strip which was made into primer cup material which had been exposed to ammonia fumes in a train wreck, and many 7-1/2 and 9-1/2 primers were made from that stuff in the 1980s, which burst at the knuckle-radius at the edge of the primer cup. I know several people, including myself, who had so many burst primers in their cast bullet guns that the gas jet actually cut a ring in the face of the bolt...

I thought those days were over until I got some Remington primers cheap at a yard sale and found out how old they were... They are still around.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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72coupe posted this 31 December 2009

Ed I have used quite a few Remington 6 1/2 primers loaded into 223. The problem you describe is common with the 6 1/2 in 223.

I have used several AR bolt replacements because of the damage. Thankfully they dont cost much and are easy to replace and head space has never been a problem.

I avoid using them in my bolt guns though.

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