Is pork lard ok for use with bullet lubes (BP revolver and miniball type stuff)

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  • Last Post 08 February 2010
corerf posted this 29 January 2010

Is pork lard ok?? I have spent several hours trying to nail down beef fat for rendering. For the hours spent I got about 1.5 lbs which will not get me very far at all. No major grocer will give it or sell it as they get a stipend for returning it to some no-name renderer. Had to find a hole in the wall mexican food store to get a butcher that gave me the fat I am rendering right now. While there, I found bulk lard, not farmer john. The butcher said it probably also had preservatives and citric acid plus it was pork.  But it looked GOOD and was $5 for 4.5 lbs. My local specialty butcher gets $2/lb for ANY beef fat, period. I am NOT paying $2/lb for a 1:2 yield at best. So how bad is it to use store bought pork lard from the mexican market?? Mixing as 50/50 with beeswax for BP pistol lube. I read Crico ingredients, didn't look wholesome for the gun. BTW: I don't have skunks, opposums, bear, deer,goat, roach, cricket or other fat sources here in the city! I could slaughter my Lab but she probably won't fetch as well after I do. She does have enough fat to get the job done though. As always, thanks in advance. Lardless Mike in Garden Grove!

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2Tite posted this 29 January 2010

How much salt would be in the grease?

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argie1891 posted this 29 January 2010

i think there would be two issues. one would be that lard will turn rancid after a while. i am not sure how long it will last but somewhere out there the smell will get bad. Two make sure there is no salt in i dont have to go into details about what thet would do to the bore of your firearm. other than that i dont see any real problem. argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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corerf posted this 29 January 2010

2Tite, no salt. The lard I have seen has a preservative, BHT or soem sort of thing and citric acid (thats the parts I was trying to get away from) in small amount. Otherwise, it's FAT. No sugar, salt, minerals, etc. FAT.

I was successful at rendering my own last night, but when I get to the garage refer, I will probably be disappointed at the yield from 2 lbs of trimmings. Maybe I got a couple of ounces. It sure seemed like there wasn't much but it was floating on water so maybe it's deceiving.

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BerdanIII posted this 31 January 2010

You may want to double-check on the salt content. I just skimmed an article in The Fouling Shot that dealt with rendering fat and even after three washing/leachings, there was still measurable salt in the leachate (by use of chemical indicators). I will look and see what fat was rendered and post it.

The authors noted that you could still clean the salt out of the bore by normal water-based methods and that in the days of black powder, the hygroscopic fouling left by black powder and corrosive priming far out-weighed the salt left from animal-based bullet lubes.

 

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Dale53 posted this 31 January 2010

I would not be interested in using rendered lard in bullet lube. It ALL contains salt - just the nature of lard.

I have long used Emmert's Home Mix lube for black powder use and have also used it successfully in pistol and revolver smokeless loads.

The original mix is 50% pure natural beeswax,40% Crisco, and 10% Canola Oil, I have slightly changed the original formula to lengthen it's shelf life. My present formula is 50% Beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Anhydrous Lanolin. It is a superb lube for black powder and is also first rate for a schuetzen rifle lube and standard velocity revolver loads.

FWIW Dale53

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corerf posted this 31 January 2010

I have the lanolin on the way Dale for the modified Emmerts. I will be trying to make a softer, more fluid form to use as a bore butter as well as a stiffer lube. I am going to use Crisco, there has been no responses advocating rendered fat aside from mutton tallow, that has pushed me in any other direction. I am assuming the canola oil will give fluidity based on proportion and up to maybe 10% less beeswax. I have seen the last 10% split 50/50 with lanolin and oil as well.

AS for the salt content, any animal product and vegetable product will have salts, it's a cellular physiologic fact. So to believe that an animal compound that forms naturally by cellular and physiologic processes is merely myth. All cells have salts, period. So the ADDED salt for flavor or in preservation is the problem, not the natural existence of salt. I would guess that the salt in my hand oils is higher than in animal fat rendered at home from pure beef trimmings.

BerdanIII: I agree with you after pondering the sulfur/water compound that will form in the barrel short term, teh propellant is the WORST thing you can use in your barrel, hence the development of smokeless. So the fat is not a bad thing, I have concluded, if one can follow the rendering process to verify that it low a salt content as possible.

Dale, Crisco it is. I have it in the cupboard, as well as the canola oil. It's cheaper than store bought lard. Any insight on thinning the mix for butter form would be appreciated. Also, hot weather performance for staying in lube grooves (or how bad it melts at 95' days).

Thanks to everyone who has responded. The preponderance of data give by all of you has helped me make an informed decision on my first attempt at BP lube.

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tturner53 posted this 01 February 2010

I use TC Bore Butter Natural Lube 1000 in all my muzzleloaders for everything from patch lube to after cleaning preservative, some of my guns I've had 25+ years and no rust. I also use it on percussion revolvers, but do use plain old Crisco also. I put a gob on top of each cylinder in my ROA, really keeps fouling soft. The crisco is better in cool weather, runny when it gets hot. Does anybody know what's in the TC Bore Butter?

 A little shift,... I found an old fashioned gun store in Auburn, Ca., for you guys around here. Besides modern stuff they have a good black powder department. I went there looking for a book"Not Looking to Die” by A. Macomber, a CBA member and forum contributor. It's a very interesting book. By the way, the gun store is Sierra Gun Supply, and they have 3 new ROAs for sale, among other very interesting black powder guns. They also have more reloading stuff than I've seen in a while.

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corerf posted this 01 February 2010

How much were the roa' s?????

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tturner53 posted this 01 February 2010

$499. Blue, 7.5", fixed sights. All three are the same, I think they've been sitting on the shelf a while.

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corerf posted this 01 February 2010

They are NEW NEW?? I want one. Yo think they will ship??

I made lube. 50/50 brown beeswax and crisco, then added three teaspoons of soybean oil. It has the consistency of cashew butter, it is sticky, not too sticky, but sticky. It's also very greasy but maybe not quite as greasy as the TC bore butter. It doesn't gravitate toward laying down, it holds it's shape well. I think I will leave this mix, change to 60/40 crisco/beeswax with same oil content. I would like to have a slightly smoother texture, one that is a slight bit less stiff with better flow and a bit greasier.

I shall shoot both. I didn't get the Cabelas starter kit. I opted for nicer components and spent my points wisely to max out value. I needed a nipple wrench but nobody in town has one to fit. So I had to make one, used an RCBS screwdriver (flat) ground the first 1/4 inc off end. Then I used a dremel disk to cut a slot the width of the nipple boss. Ground the wide part of the tip to be cylindrical and radiused all edges outside the slot. Looks like a spanner driver bit with a square slot instead of pins. It locks onto the nipple very tight, no slop. It doens't cam around either so teh nipple boss should stay square and not get jacked up. It was $15 shipped for a proper wrench, I didn't want to eat shipping for a little cheap tool. I have not cleaned the factory crap off the gun yet due to lack of the wrench. I have antiseize for the nipples. I will be trying to acetone all metal parts, then ER all parts for preservative. Ed Harris has used ER for the interior of the barrel and cylinders (I believe he removes what he can before first shot). I also need to check the lockup on two cylinders and bolt width. I am expecting to have a heck of a time getting the wedge out, as everyone seems to the first time. I am anxious to shoot it. Read up on paper cartridge techniques. I was a pyro as a teenager, separated plenty of nitro from dads dblbase powder, then got the NG headaches to go with it. Intend on using cigarette papers to roll (as others have), paper powder charges with a pseudo flash paper coating at base to generate higher sensitivity for ignition. I am using Pyrodex for charges so a layer of paper to cap thru will be even harder to light charge. It's worth a try. A small amount of nitrocellulose permeated into the base of the paper charge should make things go. Just don't know if the paper will tolerate a dab of solvent with any handling without tearing or falling apart during the coating. I wanted to premeasure charges before a shoot, to facilitate testing and the paper charges seemed like a viable option. Most folks have had success with BP, but not substitutes.

Any advise on the consistency of the lube?? I know I deviated from the Emmerts recipe but I don't think soybean oil is that big a change from canola and the 10% variation of wax/grease wouldn't hurt tooooo much. More crisco????? Or more wax?????

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tturner53 posted this 02 February 2010

I don't know if they'll ship. Yes, they are new new, very nice guns, new in box. I got the name wrong, it's 'Sierra Gun Supply' in Auburn, Ca. (530) 823-9113.

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gussy posted this 02 February 2010

I don't use any lard. I use peanut oil left over from my turkey frier. Mixed with bees wax and lanolin. Mixed according to weather for thickness. Gus

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corerf posted this 02 February 2010

gussy, do you add wax for thicker and lanolin or oil for thinner?? or just more oil for thinner. Please advise

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gussy posted this 02 February 2010

corerf wrote: gussy, do you add wax for thicker and lanolin or oil for thinner?? or just more oil for thinner. Please advise

I use 40/40/20 (BW/O/L) by volume and adjust the oil for the consistancy I want.  Actually I adjust very little if at all.  Next batch I will try olive oil as it has had some good qualities posted that may make it a better choice.

:coffeeGus

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corerf posted this 02 February 2010

I only made 2 oz of mix plus the three teaspoons of oil. I will add some oil (canola this time) to the mix and see what the consistency does. Worst case is I eyeball some additional BW/crisco to bump the mix back to stiff.

Does the oil directly relate to the melt point, or is that more the (for you lanolin) fat??? Any insight there? My hopes are that I can have two values of mix, for Arizona summer and California winter. 105 degrees and 60 degrees.

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Grant posted this 07 February 2010

Yes, lard is fine. So is bacon grease. The salt is no problem when you shoot black powder. You have to clean the gun anyway.

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corerf posted this 08 February 2010

Last post for this thread for me at least.

I broke down and purchased a TC Hawken 54 cal today from a friend who had 3. It's mint like factory fresh. He set me up with 400 RB, 500 #11's, a bottle of BP solvent and something else. Anyway, it was a parting gift, the RB and caps, etc. So I shall put the lube to work here in the short term both with the 1860 colt and this rifle.

Thanks to everyone who gave me input. It was very helpful and got me going with some options I can exercise.

Mike

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