Mosin 91-30 bedding?

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  • Last Post 17 January 2012
DAMRON G posted this 25 March 2010

I have two 7.62R 91-30 Russians(issue sights) with pretty darn good bores.I would say about 1/3-1/4 of the 5 shot groups i shoot at 100 yards are 1.5” or so.I am plagued by the odd low left shot.I have a pile of groups with 4 of 5 into 1-1.5” and that pesky low 2-1/2” -3” shot.If i shoot 10 shot groups the best have been 2” and the typical is 7-8 in to 1-3/4"-2” with the low guys 2-1/2"-3” below the core group.I have shot 2400,5744 and now 12.0 of Trail Boss( MV1225 fps) with the 314299 and most recently an LBT 205g “Loverin” bullet. for loads.I have shot  many groups over the chronograph and the low shots are sometimes the same velocity as the ones in the group.I can't bed the thing and shoot issue class,but was curious if anyone had had similar results with the Mosins and found bedding to be the culprit.Regardless,i'm hauling the rifle to Spokane this weekend to see if i can get lucky at Joe Youngs match.

 

George

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72coupe posted this 25 March 2010

1903s shoot best with some upward pressure from the end of the stock on the barrel. Could this be the answer for the 91/30?

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Vassal posted this 25 March 2010

As you may know, I shoot many Mosins. The first one I got was my first rifle, It has a strong but dark bore. I had similiar experiences, though I had roughly one more "flyer" per group than you. (That gun shoots jacketed bullets.) I have used that gun as a learning tool. I have fiddled with the beding and various products for the bore, as well as loading tech. About a month ago I used Acraglass and bedded thrifle. I did not have the money or patients to wait for bedding pillars (And I have not done it before, so I did not make my own.)

THe last time I went to the range, my usual laod of 50 - 54 of 4350 and a Hornady 174 RNSP .312 shot a 1.3” five shot group @ 100. That is about 25% of the group size I started with, and roughly 75+% reduction from just before the bedding and second JB bore treatment. I only shot once with it, but both groups were good, flyers were gone for the first time ever, and I love VASILY even more than before - If that is even possible.

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DAMRON G posted this 25 March 2010

This is typical for my Russians.First group shot was bottom target. The far right(1 st shot cold barrel) and  typical low shot were the first two(mark @ rt side of white circle not a shot) and i was disappointed so i rattled off the next 8 and they clustered pretty well. I moved to the taped up top right target and fired the next 5 into 1.4” ,then without pause shot the target on top left into 1.2".I also shot the last 4 on another target and had 3 into1” and the 4th 3” below the others.

George A Damron

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DAMRON G posted this 25 March 2010

This is the best it has shot lately.No odd shots.All with teh loverin and 12.0 of TrailBoss

5 shot grp below 1.4 ish

10 shots above  2"

Wish i could do this all the time.

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Vassal posted this 25 March 2010

I am expecting my LBT mold later today!!! I will post some pics and hopefully targets later, as I have been waiting furiously for a chance to start cast work.

I would like very much to see a pic of the bullets you are shooting, the LBT 200-?? I have thought of Trail Boss for awhile but My experience level has stoped me from too much experimentation without prior testing done by someone else. I may try it - if I need it, I think it is priced a bit high, isn't it?

I wish I could compare cast results with you, and try to engage in some mutual learning,,,, but not yet. Thank you for sharing. That seems pretty good for cast, but again I have not been able to work with cast in these rifles. My best Russian for shooting jacketed shoots pretty tight groups, but I don't think cast will work that well, we will see. I will definitely be doing a write up here on my experiences

 I too hope to compete, but I am a bit in the dark about the competitions. It seems to happen without me even knowing. THere have been postal matches already!!?!!:(mI really need to try and figure out this schedule. Even so I do not have anywhere to shoot at 200YD so I am sort of out of luck. I can nto afford St Louis BR. @ 400$:wow: on tope of that I have already purchased a Weaver K6 an Lepold rings, but now am unsure of which rifle to scope. I would like to leave my cast M39 stock but I don't know if the issue sites (as good as they are) can hang with those intriquate springfield adjustable jobbies. I have actaully begun to consider if my philosophy of using the guns with new barrels for cast and shotbarrels for jacketed is backwards. may be I should use the new barrels for jacketed for a couple thousand rounds and see if the oversize old bores perform with cast. It would not be a great shock to learn that my appraoch was exactly and precisely BACKWARDS :dunce:

Sorry to wander..>

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DAMRON G posted this 26 March 2010

I'm pretty happy with the Trail Boss loads,but it really shoots no better than 16,0 of 2400 or 12.0 of Unique.I only tried the TB load for a friends uncle who just got started casting and i was worried he would double charge a case with faster pistol powders.I ended up finding a good load as a bonus.Your Nagants are shooting jacketed bullets very well,i have never fired a jacketed reload in a Nagant.I was just given a model 39 Finn with a cracked stock and missing handguard,but with a good bore.Maybe i'll scope it and see what it can do as its far from a collectors item.

George

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DAMRON G posted this 26 March 2010

I would like very much to see a pic of the bullets you are shooting, the LBT 200-??

Here it is.Bullet on left is Lyman 311467.I sort of designed the LBT as a heavier verson of the ,467.

George

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Vassal posted this 26 March 2010

I have seen those before, I don't know why I couldn't rmemeber at the time.? Thanks forposting them again though. I am going tostart a post abouot my pursuit of accuracy woth cast in mosins. I have recieved my LBT 315-175-sp.8!

I am absolutely exstatic about the way these Mosins have been shooting. I never expected them to get that good, they sure are though!!!!!!!!:D:armyhelmet::idea1::jawdrop:

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nimrod posted this 26 March 2010

Can't wait to see a picture of the LBT .315-175, I have a mold similiar to DAMRON G's LBT but my throat is way too short for that to work.

MISSOURIANS for MOSINS

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Vassal posted this 26 March 2010

Let it be---See my new post “Mosins and the pursuit of excellence". I will post about my load development there, I will make many mistakes but we can ALL learn from them. I might even get something right!

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tturner53 posted this 26 March 2010

That's some darn good shootin' in my book. You guys are getting great groups with those issue sights. I appreciate you both sharing your experience, I'm following along, just 'discovered' MNs recently myself. Had one that was an heirloom from a friend for 15 yrs. and never even thought about shooting 'that piece of junk'! After all I've read here I started to rethink it and found out I was all wrong. Got a new mold, a 316299, to try soon, and am also experimenting with paper patching the Saeco #315. Now I'm realizing they are very good guns. Keep up the good work guys. Vassal, check out Match #7, Season Military Benchrest. It's shot at 100 yds., perfect match for your gun and new bullet. May, June, July, and August. Shoot 'em all, or just the ones you want.

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Vassal posted this 27 March 2010

Yes! I hope to be ready for competition in 5-6 weeks. I  think I might be able to make it. I don't even know how to do it (sign up)though.

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tturner53 posted this 27 March 2010

Log onto the CBA website(not the forum). Scroll down to Postal Matches, click on Match Schedule. There you'll find all the match info. Under 'General Information' you'll find the address to send your entry fee , usually about $4, and instructions on How To Enter. Easy as pie. Mail in $4, pick a match and class, probably As Issued for you, or Modified Iron and Scope. Dan will mail you the targets, you shoot them and mail them to the guy listed for that match. Note you enter and order targets from one guy and mail them to another. It's easy. If you decide to shoot one let me know, I'll shoot it with you with my Lana, she's gorgeous.

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51colt posted this 16 January 2012

A lot of Nagants have problems around the reseiver lug. If you remove the receiver screw and barrel bans try to move the barrel back forth in the stock. If their is movement put some brass shims behind the lug so there is no play. Sometimes the bottom of the receiver lug does not come in contact with the stock you can put shims there so there is no binding on the action. One other thing to check is the receiver screw a lot of them are to long and bottom out and dose not tighten the receiver all the way to the stock you can shorten the screw to fix this. You can try a thin piece of cork under the barrel about a inch from the end of the stock some Nagants like this some don't. 51

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Ed Harris posted this 16 January 2012

For what it's worth, original Finn M28/30 sniper is bedded as follows:

Metal collars around both guard screws prevent wood compression, but producing firm contact at tang and around front guard screw under receiver ring to front of magazine box.

No compression along sides of magazine box.

Barrel in contact under chamber reinforce, then clear to center-bearing at rear barrel band, in manner similar to Lee Enfield.

Barrel floating from rear band forward with no contact inside handguards or at nose cap.

When tested on sled at 300 meters at Quantico in 1980s Lapua match ammmunition with 187-gr. D46 bullet at 2330 f.p.s. would group under 4.” According to Horst Zimmerbauer at Lapua acceptance was 10cm at 300 meters and many rifles would do better than that.

Best cast loads with original NEI 7.62x39 bullet of my design or #314299 cast 13 BHN, sized .313 with 15.5 grs. of #2400, 13 grs. of PB or 29 grs. of IMR4895 pulldown would shoot X-ring on military SR at 200 yards.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Duett posted this 16 January 2012

About bedding Mosin Nagants:

Take a look at pages 14-22 from this document:

http://www.reservilaisliitto.fi/files/3989/ParabellumjaUkko-Pekka.pdf

Although the text is in Finnish (and Russian), those pictures tells more than thousend words, as they say...

Trigger modifications can be found from page 42 forward.

These instructions have been used for a long time in Finland and Russia for these rifles.

Another link, also in Finnish:

http://www.reservilaisliitto.fi/files/3077/PERINNEKIVAARIAMMUNTA.pdf

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RicinYakima posted this 17 January 2012

Thank you Duett! I have added those links to my group for the 20/30. Now I will have to get my son to help me translate the Russian. Ric

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