bullet not seating concentrically in brass

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  • Last Post 03 May 2010
amb1935 posted this 29 April 2010

I am loading for the 7.62x54r and am using a fat CTL 312-160-2R as cast with Lee dies.  I am using the Lee universal expander.  This expander does a great job flaring the case neck, however when I seat the bullet I can tell that it is slightly bulging the case neck on one side.  Although rounds chamber and shoot fine, it bugs me that these bullets aren't seating perfectly square.  I am guess that the bullet is being loaded off center because the case neck is still sized for .308.  Flaring the top of the neck keeps from shaving lead, but I think it's the rest of the neck that is causing problems.  Does anyone have any advice on how to remedy this?  Thanks. -Aaron

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corerf posted this 29 April 2010

It is as far as I understand, contributing to a decrease in accuracy. Bullet leaves canted, and stays canted through the throat and the bore.

I have the same problem with 22 K hornet cases as they are very thin skinned. I don't know what to do about it either.

I have read about a die made by most of the big mfgrs that supports the bullet and neck in such a way to make perfect, the concentric seating.

I am sure it is $$$$ and may not work real well with a cast bullet larger in diameter than a jacketed bullet.

I am watching this thread for some wisdom myself!

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billwnr posted this 29 April 2010

I would try a different shellholder if it was me.

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corerf posted this 29 April 2010

bill: the case DOES rock when inserted! Holy Mackeral, I have always assumed that there SHOULD be some slop in the caseholder.

Please add more info if you could.

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billwnr posted this 29 April 2010

I think your shellholder was made off center. I have had a similar problem with .32HR and it was fixed when I replaced the shellholder.

Also check out your seating die. Rotate it upside down in your hand and see if the cavity is offcenter. That's another possibility.

Or.... your case walls could be thin (think weak) on one side.

have you rolled a case across a flat surface to see if the bullet tip wobbles?

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gunarea posted this 29 April 2010

Hey Aaron

   Another thing to check is the top punch in your seating die. The die needs to have the correct shape to match the bullet profile. The same thing holds for that new 450 you got. A correctly fitting top punch is imperative to run the bullet straight into the die. HTH.

                                                                                   Roy

Shoot often, Shoot well

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CB posted this 30 April 2010

amb1935 wrote: I am guess that the bullet is being loaded off center because the case neck is still sized for .308.  Flaring the top of the neck keeps from shaving lead, but I think it's the rest of the neck that is causing problems.  Does anyone have any advice on how to remedy this?  Thanks. -Aaron

I think you have guessed right? You are way too undersized on the rest of your neck. This causes extreme expansion of the neck when the bullet is seated, finding its way to least resistance (to one side). I've had similar problems with too small inside diameter necks.

Try a different expander ball in your sizing die from a .303 British die set. If it is too big, buff it down to a smaller diameter to your needs, usually so the neck ID is .002” under bullet base diameter.................Dan

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beemer posted this 01 May 2010

I had the same problem loading my Russian. Most companys make a larger expander ball as mentioned above. A seperate expander like the Lyman M die might help also. I cured mine by modifing a Lee collet neck sizer for a 303 Brit.

I would still check the case after sizing to see if it is straight. I have never had a shellhoulder out of center but I once had a sizer that sized the neck to small and distorted it when the expander was pulled through.

Dave

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giorgio de galleani posted this 01 May 2010

Please bear me,I am a heavyweight.

Lets begin with some history.Saami,and die makers had little contacts at the times

(remember the Evil Empire)when at Tula and Ismash the Rooshians made your Mosin gun.

And in my opinion current dies are made to use .308 bullets,and the Finns are using 308 lapea bullets in their Finn  made Mosin barrels.

As in the other Communist 7.62 x39 caliber ,us makers use 308 barrels ,while the balkan surplus is at least 311diameter.

If you are having seating problems it is not your fault,the die maker make dies for  .308 jacketed bullets,or at the most for 310 bullets.

Usually the sizer dies size the case neck too much ,and the pull through expander on the decapping pin pulls out  irregularily the cheap brass you are using

I bet that your expander ball is too small too.

The Lee universal expander is not an expander,but a flaring tool.

Lyman M expander dies expand the necks ,but do not flare them enough to seat cast bullets well.

You can try with an RCBS .311 expander die,it will expand and flare the necks.

If the 311 plug is not big enough,tou can get a 323 expanding plug ,soften it on a bunsen lamp,ang chuck in a  lathe and bring it down to a measure compatible with your bullets.

Another option is to use Lee Jones neck sizing dies with custom bullets.and the Lee plug.

They are not cheap.

At present I am using a well regulated Lee collet sizer die and a 311 rcbs expander die,and keep off  the balcanic stuff,being a bolt action my mosin carbine does not sray brass all over the lawn and usually do not loose my LAPUA brass.

I think,that the Lee collet die,used with light force and the Lee universal  exp die is the best and most economic way to go.

In the UPS depot lays a packet from Brownells ,containing some reamers and the scout mount for my darling,I am already loading concentrical rounds ,loaded with .314 bullets.I hope to be able to shoot them next tuesday.

 

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CB posted this 01 May 2010

Well said Giorgio!

Did I mention I have a passion for Italian Moscoto wines?.............Dan

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giorgio de galleani posted this 01 May 2010

You can love Moscato wines,sweet and sparkling,Though I prefer dry sparkling wines,the Frenchies call them brut,we are no more allowed to call them Mèthode Champenoise.

But having poured off the barrels the  moscato wine,we distill from the  wet skins of the grapes the Moscato Grappa,a drink fit for angels.

 

I loaded some rounds of 7.62 mosin rounds,full lenght sized in a Lee die , because they came from a semiauto SVD Dragunova I have been able to trade down in Alessandria town.

Expanded with an rcbs 311 exp die,and loaded Nei 314 bullets.

Not perfect for 100 yards benchrest but neither outrageously misaligned.

See picture,the svd leaves a small necklace in the brass.

 

 

 

PS I traded the Evil's Empire SVD for a very good  Winchester  Enfield US Mod of '17

I'll bring home in the next week.

 

 

 

 

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giorgio de galleani posted this 01 May 2010

I have just a pic of this Archetti fellow who makes wonderful wines in the Franciacorta land ,between the Iseo Lake and the Valtrompia  the  gunsmith valley.

Were my mother spent her childhood years  during the Great War

Her dad , a cavalry corporal,fought on the Pasubio  mountain on foot and rode after the fleeing Imperial Army after Vittorio Veneto battle in 1918 .

He passed the Piave on the pontoon bridge  at Maserada ,that brings to the islands called Grave di Papadopoli where presently  they make the wonderful white sparkling Prosecco della Gioiosa Marca Trevigiana.

 

As soon as I'll have my SVD brass  fire formed in the Mosin 44 chamber I'll treat them with the Lee collet die ,and I am sure the'll be correctly loaded.

I have tried to seat in the full lenght sized and 311 expanded a 318 bullet,and the round was really deformed,as AMB 1935 says of his brass.

And ,of course the thought of retrieving my costly lapua cases in the lawn was aweful indeed. So I bid adieu to the accurate,but ugly SVD.

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longround posted this 02 May 2010

G d G At our house we pick up the brass and leave the wine bottles in the grass. Thanks for the good info. Best wishes from SD USA. TK

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grouch posted this 02 May 2010

Been through this problem. Either a larger expander plug or a Lee collet die properly set should solve the problem. I favor the collet die. Grouch

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Wineman posted this 02 May 2010

I had the great opportunity to take my family to Italy last April (no volcano). Since wine is my livelihood, we made time to visit the Proseco region (Sparkling Wine) outside of the town of Treviso. The producer Bisol is a fairly large house and make a wide range of sparkling wines. In Venice my daughters got to purchase wine in a small shop in Venice called Vino Sfuzo (loose) where you bring your own container and for three Euro you got 1.5 liters of wine!

We had a wonderful trip and visited several wineries. We also had a tourist tour of some Chianti estates but the trip to Proseco was one of a kind.

Wineman

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giorgio de galleani posted this 02 May 2010

The  empty glass  bottles are as relodable as the brass cases.

I discovered the Prosecco Wine the night before a Cow Boy match at the Treviso range.

While using the Champenoise method you get a Champagne type wine the traditional Prosecco wine,with the cork tied with a small string and not with a steel wire cage,has smaller and more gentle bubbles.

At the restaurant they served it in large two liters pitchers.we ate San Daniele ham and this lovely prosecco evaporated swiftly.

I do not drink wine every day,at every meal,only at important dinners,then i try to drink the best (allowable) quality.

The best thing you can do in Venice town is to “get lost “away from the path beaten by tourists going from the railway staton to San Marco square and find the small pubs frequented by the real natives.

At any hour you can get gorgeous sandwitches and traditional  fish snacks and shower them with the “ombretta” usually a small glass of prosecco.

Mind the canals,when you get out,they are full of horrible water.

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amb1935 posted this 02 May 2010

OK, I think I may research what other dies are available. Probably the cheapest way to remedy this problem is to purchase a new expander ball from LEE and turn it down to the correct diameter that will also expand the neck far enough down to remove the cant. I think I can do this, just going to take a bit of thinking and ingenuity. I'll post an update when I get this all figured out.

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delmarskid1 posted this 03 May 2010

Lyman makes a .31 M-die that works well for me.

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