.44mag bullet hardness.

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  • Last Post 06 November 2010
Joe B. posted this 04 May 2010

Before I invest in molds for the .44 .430 bullet, I would like to know if a lead cast bullet traveling at .44mag velocity will lead the bore. If I have to settle for velocities in the 750 to 850fps range to prevent leading wouldn't staying with my .45lc .452 caliber be just as good, or will those velocities drop to 500 -650fps? ? I know that with 200gr jacketed slugs velocities of 1200 to 1350fps are possible in the Mag. Can these velocities be duplicated with cast bullets without leading the barrel, if so what would be the brinnel hardness needed for such?  :)

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Dale53 posted this 04 May 2010

JoeB; I have many revolvers in various calibers. I shoot lead EXCLUSIVELY and I get NO leading. I have in excess of 10,000 rounds of full load .44 magnum ammo through my .44 magnums with ZERO leading.

The most important measurement is of the cylinder throats. The cylinder throats should be slightly larger than your barrel groove diameter. I tend to ignore barrel groove diameter (they seem to be pretty dern standard) but am CRITICAL about cylinder throat diameter. Most .44 Magnums that I have slugged (as well as a number of .44 Specials) have responded well to cast lead bullets sized at .430".

I recently bought two new Ruger SA's (I have several other .44 magnums including a couple of Smith's). Both of the Rugers have standard barrel dimensions and both responded quite well with .430” bullets just like my Smith's.

Commercially cast bullets are often TOO hard. Lyman #2 metal is hard enough (BHN of 15) for plain base bullets to 1400-1500 fps.

A good lube is also helpful. I can recommend NRA 50/50 mix (Alox/Beeswax) or my present standard is Lars White Label Carnauba Red.

FWIW Dale53

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99 Strajght posted this 04 May 2010

I shoot 44 mag at 1200 fps with no problem. Commerically cast bullets are usually too hard and will lead. 255 gr. and a brinnel of about 13 is is all you need. 300 gr. at about 1000 and a brinnel of 13 also works. WW and tin 20 to 1 is all I use. And what Dale 53 said.

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corerf posted this 05 May 2010

1800+ FPS in 445 SM, don't even know what leading would look like it's so clean.

Stay with a softer alloy like WW and run it. If your bore is smooth and the bullet fits the throat, you'll be very happy.

Lest we forget, cast bullets achieve (typically) higher velocities than jacketed! You will find MANY folks here to substantiate that fact.

Shooting cast is not settling, it's taking the next step up in performance! Makes your gun thats currently a tack hammer, into a sledgehammer with a reinforced handle!

Good luck to you and enjoy CB's.

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Joe B. posted this 05 May 2010

Thanks Guys--I REALLY appreciate all your info. Now, do you buy lead ingots ready for casting or do you mix your lead & tin? Would the 13-15 Bhn be consistant with all calibers (.45acp-.45lc-.38 special-.357mag,etc) or does each one need it's own special diet? I think I will be ready to start my casting adventure next month- need money & equipment first- & will start with .44Mag.

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454PB posted this 05 May 2010

I agree with the previous posters.

For a newbie, keep life simple and use one alloy for all the calibers you mentioned. Wheelweights are about perfect, but can be improved by adding 1% to 2% tin if better castability is desired.

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99 Strajght posted this 05 May 2010

Try to round up some wheel weights from the local tire shops. Around here they go for $25.00 per 100 lbs. Some places will give it to you free. Add tin about 20 to 1 from 50/50 solder or 95/5 solder. Half the fun is trying to find lead and tin for free. Start asking your friends, you might be surprised at what you can find.

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Joe B. posted this 05 May 2010

I know about tin being added to lead & that most cast bullets contain a certain amount of tin but what I don't know is, what is tin? Is it tin like in tin can, or I'm sure some modified form of tin that is meltable? Is it only used for making a lead alloy for casting bullets? I warned you I didn't know squat about casting :dunce: and I apologise for these “dumb” questions, but I just gotta know--Thanks

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Dale53 posted this 05 May 2010

Tin is a metal in it's own right. “Tin” cans were plated with tin (tin is “food safe” and sheet metal is NOT (it rusts). For many years, tooth paste tubes were solid tin (now they are plastic).

Solder is mostly tin. You can buy bar tin from various sources.

My “standard” pistol and revolver alloy is WW's +2% tin.

FWIW Dale53

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Uncertain Tex posted this 06 May 2010

:fire I would not disagree with anything said here...big fan of Carnuba red..but it seems like if memory serves me that the father of the 44mag developed it on a 16 to 1 alloy..I call that an 11 brinnell...real close to new wheel weights.... Things that make you go HMMMM... I loved the tip about the light on the back side of the bullet..I'll have to try that..I got a 38-55 that seems particular about what I feed it.

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CB posted this 09 May 2010

I never have any leading problems with the bullets I cast. Some are WW plus a little tin, some are WWs with some range lead added.

The higher velocity bullets that I would use in my Marlin 444 or my Contenders, I use gas checked bullets with a slightly softer lead alloy for hunting, with no leading.

Saying a bullet is hard cast is not really a way to measure the quality of the bullets.

Jerry

 

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Joe B. posted this 10 May 2010

Thanks Jerry--Would a gas check ever need to be used in a .44 Mag revolver? I have some old 240gr Hornady lead cast bullets with gas checks but most of the gas checks are missing. These were given to me way back when after I bought the Super Blackhawk. I have loaded a few without the gas checks in some .44 Specials but didn't know what to do with them at that time. I need a few checks but unless I would need them every time I reload the Mag. I don't want to purchase a 1000 to get around 25.

Uncertain Tex--I'll ask you this one in reply to your statement about the 16 to 1 alloy. Is this lead with a 1% tin or how do you define the 16 to 1. Sorry I am so ignorant about this stuff, but if you won't give up on me I'll learn enough soon to start my own casting with enough knowledge to make a suitable bullet & then maybe I can go forward from there.

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CB posted this 10 May 2010

Can you remind me in a couple of days? Katie and I are both down with the cold/flu going around plus I am getting over foot surgery, but I will send you 25 or so Gas Checks. Most of my power rounds are GC'd, because I use a softer alloy for the bullet that deforms on impact instead of punching thru. That is my take on the 44 Mag bullets that works for me. Plus I don't getting leading at all in this combination. So you can try some before buying a 1K box of GCs, I do recommend Gator Checks, but Hornady will also work. I have also used the Lyman ones with no problems, but you occasionally find them mid range because they don't grip tightly to my bullets and sometimes they fall off.

As far as decreasing the tin content or realloying your lead, it is a matter of knowing what you have and then knowing how much of this lead alloy to add to that lead alloy or the amount of tin you need to add lead if you are starting from scratch.

On the front page of the forum is a great spread sheet in the download section that will give you some idea of what you have to blend or alloy has to be for the alloy you want and about how hard it might be.

I actually use a 20 to 1 alloy for a couple of cowboy bullets I cast, and some of my hunting bullets are even softer, except they go through a different process than normal casting. I swage a bullet into a copper cup. Dead soft lead with a partial copper jacket.

This is a very big field and we here all have knowledge to share with you.

Jerry

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JetMech posted this 10 May 2010

Joe,

This might help you out quite a bit: http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm>http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm All kinds of good info there.

Also, the new Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook comes out in about 4 weeks. You can get it on order now at MidSouth or wherever you order supplies. It would be an excellent investment. Alot of folks here learned the basics from one of the older Lyman Cast Bullet books and are waiting for the new one.

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CB posted this 10 May 2010

I used to have the old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, it didn't follow me in a move, so I will probably buy a new one.

One really good thing to do, is to write down everything you do, I use a Composition book so I can cut out stuff/pictures and tape it in the book. I thought about keeping my records on computer, but when I am casting, I don't want my computer near the stuff, so I use the composition books.

Jerry

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JetMech posted this 10 May 2010

miestro_jerry wrote: One really good thing to do, is to write down everything you do, I use a Composition book so I can cut out stuff/pictures and tape it in the book. I thought about keeping my records on computer, but when I am casting, I don't want my computer near the stuff, so I use the composition books.

Jerry Jerry, I have to second that 100%. :thumbsup: I do much better writing notes as I'm working. Little things that may be forgotten later. They can be condensed later if needed. If (when) I get in a hurry and don't take notes, I regret it every time.

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Joe B. posted this 10 May 2010

Wonderful advice & you bet I will cherish it. I have been taking notes on paper & saving info to the computer also. When I need it, & can't find my book ( sometimes ( can't find my @**with both hands) I will have it stored in, My Docunents, & will eventually copy that to a disk.

    Thanks Jerry & heal fast--I can keep you busy with questions. I'm going to try to make the Gun Show on the 15th.   And Doctor I will be looking at the forum location that was mentioned & also looking for the old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. That should get me in enough trouble with the Bride--but she doesn't even know what she will have to object to yet.:wnk:

 

Being “over the hill” is much better than being “under it". :cool:

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Joe B. posted this 10 May 2010

Just read lots of the info at lasc.us cast bullet page--Boy if I wasn't confused before I am now--Good info I guess but the more I read The more confused I got. My old brain isn't processing this info like I designed it to--I'll keep trying.

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CB posted this 10 May 2010

Joe,

Just keep asking questions.

Take care,

Jerry

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Daryl S posted this 28 May 2010

I shot as-cast, lubed in .430” die that barely touches the sides. I use full power loads in my 4” M29 - the third - never any leading and use only straight WW's.

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Joe B. posted this 25 June 2010

Dollar Bill--I went back up on the url you gave me in your post dated 5-10-2010 & am pleased to report that with the great amount of info & patience all of you on this forum has given me I could see the information in a new light. I know I will have more questions in the future but with the info from this article I now have sufficient knowledge to start casting. There is some contridiction, or should I say difference of opinion among all casters, so this is where my feeble brain goes on line to try, then make my on decision, about different recipes & performance in my guns. Thanks again for all the GREAT info & I hope I can do my part. Will post results as they develop--

         Joe B. :cba: :D

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