Neck tension

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  • Last Post 31 May 2010
JeffinNZ posted this 27 May 2010

Team.

I am on a mission.  This winter I am out to wring the maximum accuracy I can out of my Lee Enfield No4 MkII.  I have a side mount scope base on it and a 6 x Burris and will be sending Jim's most excellent CBE 316 240 bullet down range.

What is the maximum neck tension you military shooters like to have?

Cheers from New Zealand

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RicinYakima posted this 27 May 2010

I have been using shop made plugs for my “M” dies. I make them 0.001” smaller than the sized bullet. When used, the neck will spring back about 0.001” also. So the total neck tension is 0.002", checked with plug guages.

The other part of this is that I clean the insides of the neck with 0000 steel wool before loading match rounds. They are shiney inside.

HTH, Ric

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JeffinNZ posted this 27 May 2010

Good thinking on the steel wool.  I have a big old bundle of that. 

Thanks Ric.

Cheers from New Zealand

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RicinYakima posted this 28 May 2010

The one question with that is that it may not be enough to keep the bullet in place during rapid fire from the magazine. It may, I just never tried it. Ric

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tturner53 posted this 28 May 2010

While you're thinking of neck tension, I lube the inside of the neck for passing over the expander button, or sometimes I get one stuck. Do you guys clean that lube out before loading? I've never bothered, but I'm not setting any records either.

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RicinYakima posted this 28 May 2010

I have an old bore cotton bore mop with sizing die wax that run down the case neck. I've never removed it either.

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Tom Acheson posted this 28 May 2010

Here's an alternate way to do this. Don't use an expander each time you reload. For my .30 cal. rounds, after being fire-formed, I have a Sinclair neck turning “spud” that I use to “over-expand” the case mouth. Then using Redding's instructions, I select a neck sizing bushing that is used to “squish down” or reduce the OD of the case mouth. As an example, if the CB is 0.310” and the case necks measure 0.013"; you double that, add the CB diameter and then subtract 0.002” to 0.004” to arrive at the bushing size to use. The calculated OD would be 0.336” and deducting 0.003” would tell us to use a 0.033” Redding bushing. Then after each firing (the case mouth has already expanded from firing) you just run the neck through the same bushing.

Using the long tapered Lyman case mouth inside deburring tool lets you avoid having to use an M-die to allow a bullet to be seated without damaging the bullet..

The key is to experiment to find which size bushing gives the best result because it seems as if each gun likes a specific amount of “neck tension". But now you are no longer pulling an expander through the case mouth, stretching or lengthening the case. And how often is the factory die set-up with the “best” expander for your situation?

For my 74 Sharps in .40-65 the case is reloaded after firing “as is". Prime it, drop in the black powder, insert the wad, compress, drop the bullet in (it comes to rest on top of the wad) and use a Lyman taper crimp die to just lightly hold the bullet in place so it doesn't come out during transit or handling. That's probably a case of 0 neck tension.

FWIW

Tom

Tom

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cityboy posted this 28 May 2010

I seldom use an expander. I use a Lee collet die and a Lufkin telescoping hole gauge to give an interference fit of 0.001 to 0.002 inch.  Then I use a Lee universal case neck expander to bell the mouth.

Jim

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tturner53 posted this 29 May 2010

On the topic of lubing the inside of the necks, one of the things about it that's not ideal is the powder sticks to it when charging the cases. I've wiped it out, and not, never could see a difference in accuracy, but I don't like it anyway. Browsing thru the latest Midway flyer I see a possible solution, and it's cheap. Frankford Arsenal case neck lubricator, $13.49. You dip the neck in mica(included) and then run it down on a brush. There's several different caliber brushes, they mount to a stand with the brushes pointing up. I'll get one and see how I like it, maybe no more powder stuck to the inside of the neck.

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JeffinNZ posted this 30 May 2010

Tried yesterday with .3165 bullets seated in necks of .311 (ex the Lee Collet die) and .314 (expander). The load preferred the TIGHT neck. Burning Benchmark, 25.5gr under the 240gr bullet.

On a side, I tried the bullets with and without lube on the nose. The lubed noses shot a very big group. The dry noses did not.

Cheers from New Zealand

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JeffinNZ posted this 30 May 2010

Well, that'll teach me to open my big mouth. Just went to the range with the tight neck loads and 'she' threw them right, left and center.

Cheers from New Zealand

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JetMech posted this 31 May 2010

tturner53 wrote: On the topic of lubing the inside of the necks, one of the things about it that's not ideal is the powder sticks to it when charging the cases. I've wiped it out, and not, never could see a difference in accuracy, but I don't like it anyway. Browsing thru the latest Midway flyer I see a possible solution, and it's cheap. Frankford Arsenal case neck lubricator, $13.49. You dip the neck in mica(included) and then run it down on a brush. There's several different caliber brushes, they mount to a stand with the brushes pointing up. I'll get one and see how I like it, maybe no more powder stuck to the inside of the neck. When I size cases, I shoot the body with Hornady One Shot, then dip the entire mouth/neck in powdered graphite. A little messy but lubes the necks well and has no effect on the powder later. Neck sizing, the same thing. Graphite only, except that I started using the Redding dies as Tom has outlined and the bushings can be had in carbide, which negates the need for lube.

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