Help with 32 load data in the SMLE with adapters

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  • Last Post 11 June 2010
Scottman posted this 02 June 2010

Hi everyone, i'm 21 and want to as a hobby develop loads for a 1917 enfield.

I want to use chamber adapters and pistol ammo as part of this hobby.

Full loads and plinker loads with the 303 brass are not part of this discussion.

Now, I have the sportsman guide's adapters.

they allow 32 acp, sw longs and shorts, and 32 hr mag to be fired.

The concept I am going for is 5 total adapters, firing straight pistol wall cases that can be reloaded a good amount of times even if the smle's action is “springy". All I want is cheap plinking loads for up close, low noise, low recoil, but better accuracy than what I am getting in my previous times out with the adapter.

I've read about Ed Harris's 1.2 and 2 grains of bullseye over a 120 grain bullet for the 32 sw long. 

I have a box of sw longs I shot up. And some 32 acp.

Now here's some targets. Why was the 32 acp turning the enfield into a shotgun? Accuracy with the 32 longs wasn't too great either.

32 longs 7 yds

32 longs 15 yards

32 acp 15 yards. yikes. 71 grain fmj

So yeah, I'm thinking the heaviest cast bullets I can fit in the case may help accuracy?

What should I load in the 32 acp cases, what in the 32 longs. My guess is the bigger longer bullet the more like a rifle cartridge it would be and accuracy would be better? how's these bullets http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=114&category=6&secondary=&keywords=>http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=114&category=6&secondary=&keywords=

I don't have to worry about cartridge length because of the adapters. Could 150 grain bullets be launced from the 32 acp and 32 long brass?

Help a young guy out, what do you guys think? Any help would greatly be appreciated. As I don't know anything and don't come from a “gun” family.

:)

-Scott

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BerdanIII posted this 02 June 2010

The problem with the .32 ACP's is probably a combination of the long jump to the rifling and a stubby .311” diameter bullet. The .32 S&W may just be suffering from the jump to the rifling.

I would be tempted to try out Speer's 100-gr .32 cal. swaged hollow-based wadcutter; they have worked very well for me in full-size cases in the .303, as have the Magtech .32 cal. 98-gr LRN's. For some reason, commercially-cast .314” 100-gr. SWC's don't shoot nearly as well in my rifle at 50 yards (the current minimum distance I can shoot at). If I remember correctly, there is some data in an old Handloader's Digest on loading 150-gr bullets in the .32 S&W or .32 H&R Magnum; I'll look it up.

Do you know the largest diameter bullet that can be used in the adapter?

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Scottman posted this 02 June 2010

Hi! :)

It says you can use 32 acp, 32 sw short and longs, and 32 hr. I don't know the largest diameter bullet but would suspect it would be 314 for available loads in the pistol cartridges?

I was shooting winchester white box in 32 acp, and the 32 sw longs was 100 grain lwc- pmc ammo.

The rifle is my uncles but he let's me use it. It has rifling, not super shinny bore but hey it's old and I can't help that. Just something about that old gun. I just ordered a hammond game getter for it. Hopefully will order a box or two of deer hunting ammo and want to take it deer hunting if I have time from the Marines.

Thanks for the help. I think 150 grain bullets would help but I am just a young guy chasing after concepts.

The theory is the hollow base wadcutter's skirts would expand to grab the rifling better right?

Thanks for the help, Scott

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BerdanIII posted this 03 June 2010

Scottman:

3.5 grs of Unique with a 150-gr swaged lead bullet in the .32 S&W Long. The bullet was seated so that the roud could be chambered in a revolver. There might be some stability issues; I'll go back and get all the info and post it.

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JeffinNZ posted this 03 June 2010

God bless your youth and enthusiasm Scot. I fear the former colonies of the British Empire are about to scold you for “even if the smle's action is “springy".

Firstly, it is SMLE. The old girl is more than worthy of capital letters. :-)

Secondly, the action is not “springy". It's a bit flexible but not springy. The whole springy thing comes from folk not knowing how to load for long case life and they assume the head seperations they get are from the action 'giving'.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers from New Zealand

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BerdanIII posted this 04 June 2010

I dug the following up from The Fouling Shot Archives. As usual, if it has anything to do with the “Bunny Gun” calibers, C.E. Harris has been there, done that and designed the T-shirt.

 

TFS 61-24 (J.K. Bair)

Update on Walther GSP .32 S&W : Update of TFS 54 article

 Alberts .32 cal. 100-gr HBWC - 1.0 - Bullseye - 50 feet

 Alberts .32 cal. 100-gr HBWC - 1.8 - Bullseye - 50 yds

The author was loading for match shooting, so these loads should be good.

 

TFS 39-23 (C.E. Harris)

Colt .32 OMT: A Pleasant Shooting Old-Timer: .32 S&W Long tested in Colt Officer's Model Target revolver

Hornady 90-gr SWC - 2.1 or 2.8 - WW231 - 720 fps or 859 fps

H&G 65 (98 gr) - 3.5 - Unique - 982 fps or 2.7 - Bullseye - 966 fps or 8.5 - WW296 - 1202 fps

Alberts 100-gr HBWC - 2.4 - Unique - 830 fps

Alberts 154-gr Schuetzenplinker - 2.8 -WW231 or 7.0 - WW296 - 820 fps or 1008 fps

90-100 gr bullets over 850 fps for large-frame revolvers only

 

TFS 40-11 (C.E. Harris)

.32 S&W Long is a Rifle Cartridge Too: 154-gr bullets in Remington 788 rebarreled (1-10” twist) to .32 S&W Long (.32 S&W Long Rifle, .32 S&W LR)

Alberts 154-gr Schuetzenplinker, Welsh 15-309B (154 gr) - 10.5 - RL7 - 1.5” COL - 1100 fps

Lyman 311291 (175 gr) - 8.5 - RL7 - 1050 fps

Alberts Schuetzenplinker - 8.0 to 9.0 - WW296 - 1150 fps - 10” Contender

150-gr plain-base - 7.0 - WW296 - 1150 fps approx. 

 

"”¦I then took the154-gr. Alberts Scheutzen plainbased bullet and seated it way out to 1.5” overall and stuff(ed) the case with all the RL-7 it would hold. The charge was 10½ grs. This gave ragged hole accuracy a t 25 yds. and gave better accuracy than any rifle to date with this Alberts bullet."

 

"I'm calling this load the .32 Long Rifle, because of its greater overall length, and to distinguish it from .32 S&W loads intended for revolvers." 

 

"Although most of my testing to date has been with the 154-gr. Alberts bullet, the .32 LR should work well with plainbased or GC cast bullets of less than 180 grs. Limited trials of the #311291 and NEI 182-308 gave good results with charges from 8½ - 10 grs. of RL-7. Also good is a caseful of 4198 or SR-4759. These powders are bulky enough you can't cram enough in the case to get into any trouble."

 

”With the heavy bullets you get higher pressure and velocity than in shooting the 154-gr. Alberts. The 10½ gr. load of RL-7 gives about 1100 f.p.s. with the Alberts bullets, and I got no perforations of Federal 100 pistol primers. When substituting the #311291 with the same charge, velocity jumped to 1220 f.p.s. and I got a few pierced primer cups. Therefore, I'd suggest using rifle primers with the heavier bullets, or cutting back the load, preferably the latter. An 8½ gr. charge of RL-7 will give about 1050 f.p.s. with the #311291 or similar."

 

The only problem I see with using the above .32 S&W LR loads is that they might produce enough pressure to bulge or permanently expand the chamber adapter. If that happens, you might be able to resize the adapter in a standard .303 resizing die, but I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe Mr. Harris will weigh in on the subject. I personally don't see any problem with using the pistol loads listed above. The .303 has a 1-10” twist, so at the velocities you will be getting, stability probably won't be an issue. If I could scrounge some range pick-up .32 S&W or .32 H&R Magnum brass, I'd probably give this a try.

 

I originally chose the Speer wadcutter because it was a 0.314” diameter island in a sea of 110-gr.,  .308” Carbine bullets. I was amazed at how well it shot at 50 yards. The hollow base might expand to give a better bore fit, but I never recovered a bullet to look at and the landing probably messed it up.

 

Whatever happens, write up your experiences and submit them to The Fouling Shot.

 

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Scottman posted this 05 June 2010

-I'm sorry. I 've been working like a dog, tired, I did cap SMLE on the title. Also, I'm sorry I was getting my info from my speer reloading manual.

"Lee Enfield rifles were made in a dizzying number of variations but all share one common feature. THe

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BerdanIII posted this 09 June 2010

The SMLE action may be proofed to that level, but the chamber adapters may not be. Obviously, the chamber adapters are somewhat smaller than the rifle chamber to permit easy feeding and extraction. The adapters will expand if you exceed the pressures they are designed to take, maybe permanently. This could cause hard extraction or the adapter may even get stuck in the chamber. MCA makes (or made) chamber adapters for .308 WCF and .30-'06 that use the .30 Carbine round; if yours are of similar quality, then you're probably safe.

 

I really don't know if you can get heavy-bullet .32 ACP loads to work. Initially, I thought that case capacity and bullet seating depth wouldn't permit them, but now I'm not so sure. The .32 ACP was always a smokeless powder cartridge and does not have the “excess” case capacity of the .32 S&W Long, which was originally a black powder cartridge. The greater case capacity of the .32 S&W Long allows the use of a slower (relatively speaking) powder that can drive a heavier bullet at safe pressures. (See the .32 S&W LR loads from the previous post.) You're stuck with small charges of fast powders in the .32 ACP no matter what you do. Sharpe shows seating depths ranging from 0.125” for a 71-gr. FMJ to 0.210” for an 88-gr. cast bullet. His maximum loads were 3.5 grs. of Unique or 2.3 grs. of Bullseye with a 74-gr. FMJ bullet seated 0.153” deep. The 3.5-gr. charge of Unique matches the charge noted for the 150-gr. bullet in the .32 S&W Long, but the bullet in the revolver load was seated deep in the case and heavily crimped. These factors combine to ensure a good powder burn. A 150-gr. bullet in the .32 ACP won't have either of these advantages and would have to rely on the inertia of the bullet alone to get a good powder burn and so build enough pressure to send the bullet out the muzzle. If this works, velocities are going to be LOW; probably around 700 fps. I really would expect to stick a bullet in the barrel. The “good” news is that a lead bullet stuck in the barrel is much easier to knock out than a jacketed one. You're going to be a pioneer (with all that word implies) if you try this.

 

Another thing to consider is loading dies. The expander die will have to expand case mouths enough to seat 0.314” bullets without shaving them and I doubt if .32 ACP seater dies are set up to handle 0.314” 150-gr. bullets because of their length and diameter. You will probably have to get a .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R seater die and replace the standard .32 ACP expander with one from the .32 S&W or .32 H&R or get a Lyman “M” die. Case life may be very short. All in all, the .32 S&W Long seems like the better bet for heavy bullets.

 

In TFS 188-7, C.E. Harris gives a .32 ACP load of a Meister 94-gr LFN and 1.7 grs of Bullseye which in an 18” barrel comes close to .32-20 WCF pistol ballistics. The same bullet and 2.0 grs. of Bullseye in a .30-30 using an MCA .32 ACP chamber adapter gave 1111 fps and groups of 3 to 4 inches at 50 yards.  

 

Check the Web for commercial sources of 0.314” bullets; I'm sure somebody out there casts them in a 150-gr. weight. They may be pricey.

 

Let us know how it goes.

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Ed Harris posted this 09 June 2010

Least expensive source for commercial .313-.314 pistol bullets is Hornady. Either their SWC or HBWC bullets for the .32 S&W Long should work OK. For adapter use in the rifle re-lube them with some Lee liquid Alox diluted 50-50 with mineral spirits until uniformly brassy color all over, but no more, right over the existing lube.

.32 S&W Long or .32 HRM cases will give better results than .32 ACP cases because of the long jump. I have several adapters chambered especially for the .32 ACP for the .303 British which shoot very well, but the ones with long chamber for the H&R mag are not really a one-size-fits-all if you want anything resembling normal accuracy.

If you want to use .32 ACP brass in the long chamber recommend that you use the heeled 120-gr. .310 Cadet bullet cast of soft alloy, lubricated with Lee Liquid Alox and then try 1.5-1.7 grs. of Bullseye or 2.5 grs. of Unique. The exposed front driving band of the cadet bullet is much more forgiving when you have a large throat or excessively long chamber. These also work very using .32 S&W Long brass in the H&R Magnum chamber.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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billwnr posted this 09 June 2010

on the wrinkled paper it looks like some of the bullets are keyholing.

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Scottman posted this 11 June 2010

Wow. THANKS FOR THE HELP GUYS!!

Ok, is there a commercial source for the 120 grain 310 cadet bullet?

I also think the 32 acp was keyholing.

".32 S&W Long or .32 HRM cases will give better results than .32 ACP cases because of the long jump. I have several adapters chambered especially for the .32 ACP for the .303 British which shoot very well, but the ones with long chamber for the H&R mag are not really a one-size-fits-all if you want anything resembling normal accuracy."

Thanks for the hint on the adapters. I think I'll order one from Mcace then in 32 acp for my 30-06 or 30-30 to shoot that round more accurately.

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