New Memeber with cast bullet problem

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  • Last Post 05 July 2010
brandii19 posted this 28 June 2010

Hi, I stumbled accross this Cast Bullet Assoc. in pursuite of searching for a accurate bullet for my 32-40 rifle. I built the gun out of an old Winchester low wall action, using a 1/14 twist GM barrel, and have tried a couple of bullets that don't work.

I've tried multiple powders, 4227, 4198, 2F, 3F, and duplex with the duplex giving me the best accuracy so far, which isn't good.

I currently have tried the 165 gr, flat nose mould from Saeco, and the 200 gr, flat nose, 1.044in, .321 mould from Saeco. Neither is working.

The 165 gr flies, no group, and the 200gr bullet groups better but has some fliers with poor stabilization.

According to twist rate calculations, a little longer bullet might work?

Have any of you had luck with this twist rate and 32-40 caliber?

thanks Lynn

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CB posted this 28 June 2010

What loads are you trying which each powder? Have you tried any SR4759? Is the 200 gr bullet key-holing? Are any of the bullets gas checked? What is the condition of the bore / throat?

You may need to get a mold custom cut to fit the bore to wring all of the accuracy out of this rifle that it has, but there are many other variables that you can consider before making that leap.

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canalupo posted this 28 June 2010

B

Have you slugged the barrel? Bullet may be the wrong diameter for the barrel. I would check barrel then do all of the suggestions Jeff B mentioned. Keep good records so checking data may be easier.

Good luck,

 Bob D

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nimrod posted this 28 June 2010

Any rifle that looks that should shoot! I shoot a 32-40 with a 14” twist using a 225 grain cast bullit breech seated. I'm guessing that you are shooting fixed ammo? Did you chamber this rifle yourself? If someone else did it there are lots of things to consider maybe a chamber cast would help some, get a ideal of the length of the chamber and throat?

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brandii19 posted this 28 June 2010

Yes, I'm shooting fixed ammo, and no I haven't tired the SR4759. They are not gas checked bullets, and yes, some of the fliers are key-holing. I had a competent gun smith chamber the gun to 32-40. I do all the stock work, engraving and checkering.

I have slugged the barrel, it mic's out at .319? I'll try that again. I'll get some casting material and try a chamber cast to see if I can tell whats up.

I've been trying to come up with some good ideas, before spending more money on another bullet mould?

I'll let you all know what I come up with on the castings and such. I'm also thnking a bullet in the lenght of 1.1, with spire point might work?

Thanks for your help, fell free to make comments and suggestions.

Lynn

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singleshot posted this 28 June 2010

Lynn- you do not state the charges you tried. That gun should shoot the 200 grain SAECO fine with 13-14 grains of 4227, 14- 14.5 if breech seated. This should give 1350-1450 fps.

Willis Gregory

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brandii19 posted this 29 June 2010

I've tried 13-15 grains of 4227, in .5 gr increments. I chrono'd each load and acheived speeds from 1250-1550fps. Still not shooting well enough to call it good. My duplex load with 5grs4227 and 28grs of 2f still the best, but not good.

I just cut off 2inches of barrel to see what that might do for me?? (now 30inches)

Keep yor ideas coming

thanks Lynn

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JSH posted this 29 June 2010

There are folks here that know a lot more than I. But, if it is a TRUE keyhole issue it is a twist issue and bullet length. I suspect it mat bejust a bit slow. A keyhole, imho, will be a tear somthing like this"/” in paper. An issue with the crown or bullet yaw will look somthing like this “,” rather than a “." You can chop that barrel all you want, but from my readings and findings all you will lose is velocity. Though with a long tube you may sees ome improvment in groups, as the shoter the barrel the less “whip” it will have. jeff

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canalupo posted this 29 June 2010

B

After reading posts I came to question that may seem obvious. What do you consider accurate? If bullet starts to keyhole at 200 Yds that means it is slowing down and starting to tumble. If it keyholes at 50 yds that is a problem.

Check for a barrel bulge or a barrel pinch. Throat may be smaller than barrel bore. Bulge would cause bullet to skip over rifling in area of the bulge and it would need to realign with rifling. That would cause the bullet to deform. My best guess is a bulge.

All things considered it sounds like the bullet is not following rifling consistently.

You also mentioned 2F. I am assuming your talking about black powder. Black powder fouling would fill low areas of barrel and improve accuracy. There are a lot of black powder shooters that fire the first round into a berm so the second shot has a tighter barrel.

Good luck

Bob D

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brandii19 posted this 29 June 2010

My accuracy starts to suck at 100yds, I can't detect a buldge in the barrell so I'm not thinking that's the problem.

I'm thinking a bit longer bullet will work, one with a spire point say 1.1inches. I'm just hesitant to buy another mould that doesn't work for me???

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nimrod posted this 29 June 2010

Are you sure about the .319 that seems tight to me, what kind of alloy are you using you didn't mention lube,what type of lube, are you sizing the bullets if so to what diameter. The 32-40 is a pretty forgiving cartridge and a wide range of bullets should work well at least that's been my experience.

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brandii19 posted this 29 June 2010

Lyman Gold for lube, 25-30 to one lead alloy. I drove a lead slug into the barrel to mic it

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canalupo posted this 30 June 2010

B

Hate to push this barrel bulge thing or tight throat but did you push slug all the way through barrel? If the throat is tight it will conform to throat diameter rather than a true measure of barrel bore. Try pushing slug in part way from muzzle end and driving it back out of muzzle from breech end if possible or pull bullet with a bullet puller similar to black powder ball puller.

Bob D

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brandii19 posted this 30 June 2010

Will do, and see what I get.

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cityboy posted this 30 June 2010

brandii19 wrote: Yes, I'm shooting fixed ammo, and no I haven't tired the SR4759.

SR4759 may not be the best powder for the 32-40. I remember reading someplace that it does not do well in straight-walled rounds. The 32-40 does not have much of a neck. AA5444 might be better.

Jim

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det posted this 01 July 2010

I am breech seating spitzer cast bullets that are 1.16 inches long and getting sub 3/4 inch groups out of a 1 in 15 twist badger barrel. the load I am using is doing 1460 fps at the muzzel.

As a long time Schuetzen shooter i do not use fixed ammo in 32-40 for target work only to hunt.

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John Boy posted this 02 July 2010

32-40 Loading Data:

Old Reloading Manual 32-40 - 170gr bullet All using a Remington 9 1/2 primer H2400 - 13gr - 1125 fps H2400 - 14gr - 1300 fps IMR4227 - 14gr - 1050 fps IMR4198 - 19gr - 1295 fps IMR3031 - 26gr - 1545 fps IMR4895 - 28gr - 1700 fps IMR4064 - 23.5gr - 1525 fps ............................................................... 32-40 Hodgdon Loading Data 196 GR. HOCH  H4227  .324"  2.555"  13.0  1367  18,000 CUP      196 GR. HOCH  H110  .324"  2.555"        12.0  1376  19,200 CUP      196 GR. HOCH  Lil'Gun  .324"  2.555"        9.3  1237  19,600 CUP      196 GR. HOCH  IMR  Trail Boss  .324"  2.555"  5.0  833  12,500 CUP MINIMUM 6.0  935  25,300 CUP  MAXIMUM  202 GR. POPE  H4227  .324"  2.555"        14.0  1376  15,900 CUP      202 GR. POPE  H110  .324"  2.555"        13.0  1386  17,900 CUP   202 GR. POPE  Lil'Gun  .324"  2.555"        9.5  1264  20,100 CUP      204 GR. MILLER  H4227  .324"  2.555"        13.5  1367  16,300 CUP  204 GR. MILLER  H110  .324"  2.555"        13.0  1369  17,900 CUP  204 GR. MILLER  Lil'Gun  .324"  2.555"        10.8  1310  20,100 CUP

....................................................... Goex Loading Data: 32-40 165gr bullet - 40gr FFFg - 1450 fps .......................................................

Ideal Hand Book - 1949 32-40 Bullet - Weight - Powder - Grains - Velocity 32360 - 125gr - #2400 - 13.0gr - 1680 fps 319247 - 165 - #4759 - 9.0 - 1107 319247 - 165 - #4759 - 13.2 - 1427 319247 - 165 - #2400 - 13.6 - 1545 321232 - 170 - #4759 - 13.2 - 1400 319295 - 170 - Lightning - 21.0 - 1800 319289 - 185 - #2400 - 11.0 - 1250 319273 - 185 - #4759 - 13.0 - 1350 (unsized, barrel throated)

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longrifle posted this 05 July 2010

I hope you recieved my reply. I tried to edit my typo and it disappeared.

longrifle

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longrifle posted this 05 July 2010

Hello brandii; When I saw your rifle it reminded me of my hi-wall project with a long

1/2 octagon barrel and  it had accuracy problems as you described. I was trying

to make the barrel long enough to give my tang sight a certain adjustment value.

In so doing I did not cut off enough barrel as required by the manufacture to clean up

the muzzle. I found it when I made some bullets for a friend. He remembered that

I expected the bullet to have rifling grooves engraved on the nose if inserted in the

muzzle. He called and said the bullets did show grooves and mine did not. I cut off

1 1/4 inch to fix problem. Good luck  longrifle

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