I have a few pictures I want to post that might help show the ease of pan lubbing some types of bullets. It is not the only way to get it done nor the best for all designs and needs. It is just another way to do it.
I am going to add to this post a little at a time until I get it the way I want it. ...so hang in there while it builds.
Might be kind of long.
Sorry, but these first two pic's are out of order. I will try to move them as I can.
Attached Files
After you get the bullets standing up in bread pans or what ever you use fill the pan to just cover the grooves with melted lube plus a little.
EDIT- For problems with incomplete lube fill in the grooves: Some lube types fill just fine. Others have trouble and need some help. Bullet design has something to do with this too.
In addition to just filling the pan with room temp bullets, heating the bullets once they are placed in the pan can help completely fill the GG's with lube. How much problem voids are is somewhat dependent on the kind of lube you use. With some lube types, small voids or air bubbles show as missing lube in segments of the groove. That does not help accuracy. By heating the bullets in the pan up to 135F-175F fully filled in GG and happy bullets are produced.
For voids caused be lube pull out when the bullets are removed (pushed out of the lube cake) try removing them when it is colder or warmer..... ...in other words try a different temp than what is not working now. Sometimes this can help.
For tough lube release from the pan, stick it in the freezer for 15 or 30 minutes.
Generally, heat the bullets a little before pouring the melted lube in the pan and chill for release when wanting to get the lube cake out of the pan. Then allow to warm to room temp.
C:Documents and SettingsrmrixMy DocumentsMy Pictures2010 Summer, fall&panLube 074.jpg
Attached Files
I like to use an old coffee maker to melt and store the lube. Keeps it clean and safe from dirt when not in use and safely melts the lube before each use by using the heating plate (warmer) element. This gets hot enough with out getting too hot and changing the lube in some way.
C:Documents and SettingsrmrixMy DocumentsMy Pictures2010 Summer, fall&panLube 070.jpg
Attached Files
Some of this is a little out of order but in the far leftt hand side you can see the coffee pot full of lube being poured into the bread pan full of unlubed bullets.
C:Documents and SettingsrmrixMy DocumentsMy Pictures2010 Summer, fall&panLube 071.jpg
Attached Files
After the melted lube cools and hardens up you can remove the whole cake, bullets and all, and place it over the edge of a table and press out the bullets. They come out filled even better than using a lube/sizer and less work too. If you are working with bullets having more than one diameter or what might be called tapered, then pan lubing is the only real way to do it. And, the lube ends up only where it is needed and not all over the place.
IF with your lube you can not get the lube cake to come out of the pan, try spraying the pan with Pam cooking oil (or some brand), before putting in the bullets and pouring in the melted lube. OR put the ofending pan in the freezer for 15-30 min. and then try getting it out. Then let the lube cake warm up. Most bullets come out with full lube grooves when the cake is about skin temp..... about 90 to 100 F not that your lube will not work at some other temp. C:Documents and SettingsrmrixMy DocumentsMy Pictures2010 Summer, fall&panLube 076.jpg
By sliding the cake over the edge of the table, one row of bullets can be pushed out. Then the next row and the next... and then they can be stored in a tray of some kind until loading.
C:Documents and SettingsrmrixMy DocumentsMy Pictures2010 Summer, fall&panLube 078 (2).jpg
Attached Files
I like the coffee maker idea.Thanks for the tip.
George
Attached Files
George,
I would like to be a fly on the wall when you load.
I think that if we all could just see what others do at the loading bench we would learn a lot. I bet most all of us have these little tricks that could be of great help if we could pass them on. And then, Pictures realy are worth a thousand words.
The completed tapered bullet ready to load.
C:\Documents and Settings\rmrix\My Documents\My Pictures\2010 Summer, fall&panLube 079.jpg
This is a pan of 45 ACP bullets. The lube is much thiner in the pan due to the short bullets. More care is needed to handle them. Lube brand counts as some lube works better than others in applying the pan lube.
C:Documents and SettingsrmrixMy DocumentsMy Pictures2010 Summer, fall&panLube 116 (2).jpg
Attached Files
I use a 9-inch square cornbread pan and stack .30 cal. to 8mm bullets nose-down into plastic 9mm or .38 wadcutter trays. Or use ..44 Mag or 45 ACP trays for larger calibers. Invert pan over the bullet trays and holding bullet bases against pan bottom carefully upright the pan, reposition trays to provide equal space around the pan edges and carefully remove the bullet trays to leave nice little ranks of bullets in proper marching order to pour lube around them. Let cool slowly at room temperature for a few hours first before placing pan in the frig as slower cooling reduces cracking of the lube.
When solid I remove from frig and let stand at room temperature for an hour before punching out the bullets with my thumbs over a table edge.
Favorite lube for doing this is 1 part of Dexron ATF to 4 parts of beeswax. For softer lube use 3 parts of beeswax. For blackpowder use I blend 1 part of Crisco, 3 parts beeswax and 1 ATF by liquid volume.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Thanks rmrix
Very nice job of show and tell. A helping hand such as you have presented will be an invaluable aid for many of us. Information like this some forty years ago would have saved me being banished from doing ANY kind of reloading activity in the house.
Roy
Shoot often, Shoot well
Attached Files
I like the coffee maker idea.Thanks for the tip.
George
I'll second that! Much easier than a double boiler.
Good tips from Ed, also. Patience is a virtue.
Attached Files
boy, when i remember45 yrs ago, fighting this kind of stuff, it is so great to see info being passed on to others, freely and with pictures to boot. absolutly great show and tell. congrats!!!!!
se ya frank l jr
:D:}
Attached Files
P S the coffee pot is the best thing since rolled up toilet paper. great idea!!
Attached Files
great info and may i say those are some really nice looking bullets, nice and shiny
Attached Files
He's got to be a bachelor.
Not hardly. :D
I am 56 now, had my oldest at 46 and my boy at 49.
Started loading lead in highschool in 1971 and it has been my hobby ever since.
In 1982 I found the CBA. Best regards, Michael Rix
Attached Files
Keep the wax after you remove the bullets. Next time you cast sit the bullets hot from the mold into the holes and the heat of the bullets does the next melt. Works well on 400 grain .45 cal. Have not tried this method with lighter cals.Start at one end and fill side by each as you go.
Attached Files
Hi Mike
thanks for sharing your procedure my pan lubing has been not too great all sorts of problems
and would need a hammer to get them out
question? what lube do you use
I like the coffee pot idea
thanks
have a nice day
Ray
Attached Files
The beeswax-ATF mix works really well, is easy to make and relatively cheap.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
thanks ed I will try it apprieciate the replie
Ray
Attached Files
im using a hammer to get them broke loose but then they just push right out my lube is somewhat soft it is a mix of bees wax, parafin, 2-stroke oil and some old miss. lube
Attached Files
Ed Harris, Is your mix by weight or volume? That's an easy formula that I'll try soon.....
Attached Files
from my figures by volume, it is 1lb of bees wax to .46 fluid cups of ATF my 1lb brick was 24.6 cubic in
Attached Files
RMRIX,
Very nice family picture. Always great to see a couple new casters. Lots of really neat ideas. As I only pan lube my .38 wad cutters I guess I never really thought the process through before. Everything else goes through my old Lyman 450.
:idea1:
Attached Files
I thought I knew how to do this--never had a problem until the last time when my solidified cake of lube and bullets refused to release from the pan. I ended up by dropping (actually throwing) the inverted pan onto newspapers on the garage floor--most of the cake released, but a chunk in the center wouldn't and had to be scraped out with a spatula. Next time I'll coat the pan with PAM first. Pete
Attached Files
Those are some real pretty bullets.
Because I said so!
Attached Files
to Ed Harris I have lost the make-up for bw atf lube.If you would be so kind to repeat it for me I'd appreciate it.Thanks beagle (larry fisher)
Attached Files
to Ed Harris I have lost the make-up for bw atf lube.If you would be so kind to repeat it for me I'd appreciate it.Thanks beagle (larry fisher)
Attached Files
The beeswax-ATF mix works really well, is easy to make and relatively cheap.
4:1 by WEIGHT? I presume.
Attached Files
Nice job will be trying that.
Rich L (richidaho)
Attached Files
Remind me that I want a beer, NOT coffee, if I ever stop by.... :D
But that is a good idear.
I'm a dipper myself. I have my concoction in a smallish crock pot from the Goodwill Store. I tried pan lubing, but I usually got almost as much on me as my bullets.:P So I developed my modified Ranch Dog dipping method. I use cast off plastic inserts found at the range, and dip 50 at a dip. Then in a few minutes I can use my “cake cutter” to extract them from the rack.
Goes like this. If anybodies interested in pictures. (6 with some details.)
Attached Files
Your “Shop Made” bullet tools are awesome! Thanks for the link to your pictures.
Gary
Attached Files
I too like the coffee maker. As far as pans I use silicone baking pans that I got from ebay. You'll never have a problem removing the cake from the pan with those.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
Attached Files
Bullet lube for pan lubing needs to be of the type that you can push out the bullets from the lube cake. If you need to use a devise to cut out each bullet from the pan lube method becomes MUCH less attractive.
The need for a bullet-cake cutter adds a few steps.
It means the lube is not letting the bullet push out cleanly. Very good accuracy can be had with lubes that do not require the mess and use of cutters. Pan lube is best when simple.
Attached Files
You may note that all of my references to pan lubing are in the past tense. I found it to be slow and a nuisance for me. When I want to shoot bullets as cast now I use an H&I die that doesn't touch the bullet. The cookie cutter set up worked slick when the lube was still warmish.
Attached Files
I have used bread pans but the old shallower metal bakeing pans work better because they arn't as deep. I have several different sizes depending on how many bullets need lube. These can some times be found at second hand/antique stores cheap.
Also, instead of a coffee maker, I use a perculator/pot. The kind that used to be in our house when I was a little younger. My wife found one almost new at a garage sale for a buck. Also can find them at Good Will etc.
I keep lube in the pot with the lid and spout sealed. When needed, the pot is unsealed,plugged in, lube poured in the pan and when the bullets are pushed out of the cake, the extra is put back in the pot untill next time.
RD
Attached Files
Bullet lube for pan lubing needs to be of the type that you can push out the bullets from the lube cake. If you need to use a devise to cut out each bullet from the pan lube method becomes MUCH less attractive.
It means the lube is not letting the bullet push out cleanly. Very good accuracy can be had with lubes that do not require the mess and use of cutters. Pan lube is best when simple. Yes it does. But it also removes most of the excess lube. I tried pan lubing, but did not care for it. I don't have a lubersizer, so that is not an option. But dipping has worked great for me. I “cookie cutter” my bullets from the racks (recycled from the range) leaving the excess in the rack, and a quick redip of the racks melts the excess right back into the pot.
Then putting my bullets through my Lee sizer (honed to be .002” over my rifles bore size) does two things: Sizes the bullet (obviously), and makes sure the lube grooves are uniformly filled with pressure (much like a lubersizer does). It also crimps the gas checks on (which were installed before the dipping process.
My “Modified Ranch Dipping” method allows me to quickly handle several hundred bullets at a time through a hot lubing process that also lubes the edge of the gas checks. It takes seconds for my lube to solidify after the dip, not a long time. I put the racks on an aluminum cookie sheet to cool while I do subsequent racks of bullets. By the time I get to rack 5 or 6 (250 - 300 bullets), the first are hard and ready to be extracted. My cookie cutter pushes the excess off, a quick 1/4 turn and the base is scraped, and the lube filled bullet is in the cutter. It then gets ejected into a loaf pan for the sizing process.
Clearly it is a hybrid method between pan lubing, The Ranch Dog Dipping Method, and a Lubersizer Method. And my lube always stays in one place. (Relatively...) But my bullets sure do get a lot of chances to be examined.
To you, it might sound less attractive. But then, I used to burn wood for heat. I cut my own wood. It does not warm you twice. It warms you 6 times. 1. You cut it. 2. You split it. 3. You load it. 4. You unload it. 5. You carry it into the house. 6. It finally warms your feet. (I did not include stacking nor ash removal)
Are you one of those guys who buys his wood delivered? :cba: Because I know that is simple. ;)
Attached Files
Hey Sonny, I applaud your way of doing things and that you enjoy it! A+. That is one of the big reasons for doing this. My point is not directed to someone like you who obviously has a lube “program in place” that meets your needs and you enjoy! Rather, it was directed to the many I shoot with and read here and elsewhere that try the pan lube method and move on quickly due to frustration and lack of mentoring. As you well know, we (I ) have learned so much over the years and much of what we do know comes from others willing to share and us willing to listen. I have invented very few “wheels” myself”¦.. A couple really, only to find out it was just a re-invention. Pan lubing, like wood cutting, for most of us are just part of a larger process. Pan lubing-part of finished cast bullet cartridges and wood cutting-heating the house as comfy warm as for low cost. Not to mention powder outage and self-reliance. Most times we do not want to make it any longer, messy, or intricate than it needs be. ”¦.unless we want to. If more steps serve a need, so be it. I will be the first in line. In your case, you get to enjoy your perfected method and in my case I get more time to what is important to me ”¦”¦shoot! For much of what I shoot, pan lubing for plain based bullets cast in moulds of the correct size made by Paul Jones, Steve Brooks, Mike Lewis, Ron Long, Hoch and Old West Bullets call for a simple push through lube procedure. No muss-no fuss. When I lube gas check bullets my program is partly like yours”¦”¦”¦but slighter simpler and less messy. For me the goal of shooting is to put them all in the middle.
For me, because I have so many demands on my time, anything that does not produce on the target gets cut out of the loading program. I belong to the simple loading association, (SLA). -NO! Not simple minded!:P:D
Funny you mention wood. I heat with wood mostly here in the high country. I split my wood with a maul on cool fall days and enjoy it. There is no economy in buying wood to heat your house. The wood is all free here but for the work put in to get it. Two people with a splitter could run me into the ground against me and my maul but like you and lubing, the maul is what I choose to do but I have no problem with my many friends who choose to use the hydraulic splitter. I get a work out and they get more free time to do what is important to them. Again I say, I applaud your way of doing things and that you enjoy it! All the very best!
:dude:
Got to go, a hot pot waits for no one (without oxidizing).
Michael Rix
Attached Files
We scrounge lead. Then we melt it and pour it into molds. Then we add gas checks and lube that we mostly make from god knows what. Midway and a couple hundred other places deliver jacketed bullets. Pan lube or machine lube? Some people knit socks out of dog hair. Myself I shave with a straight razor and roast my own coffee with a heat gun and a boogered up bread machine.
Attached Files
Michale, Your post title opens the door for other ways. :lovecast: No matter what, it takes more effort when you cast your own. I do plain base 45's as well as my gas checked rifle bullets. A friend gave me about 1500 9mm cast bullets back when (late '80's) I had my Browning High Power, and loaned me his Lubersizer to lube them up. That sure was nice! Still have some of them all loaded up and ready to shoot. But no gun.
LMAO!
Yep I cut my own wood for over 25 years. Never had a splitter. Never had a maul, either. I was double bit axe and sledge n wedge guy. I always liked doing my wood in the spring. Get the winter falls before they started to dry and get hardened, get the wood in, and let it dry all summer. My biggest winter fall was a Valley Oak. It yielded 17 cords of good wood, and 3 cords of crooks, forks, knots, and stove wood. Took me 6 weeks to butcher it. Last cut on the trunk was 5'8” acrossed. 3 - 16"w rollers from the trunk would make a cord of the prettiest white oak wood ever stacked. Filled the land owners wood shed (8 cords) and the rest was mine. :cool: No wonder my back is plumb wore out now. .> Now I just adjust the thermostat and let the natural gas forced air furnace warm my chilly butt. (But it sure isn't like the old wood stove with a kettle of steaming water moistening the air.)
Do you poke an Elk or Deer up there?
Attached Files
I pan lubed .45's when I was breaking into casting and bullseye shooting. I had the old Lee push through sizing dies. They used a mallet and a punch. I scored a used Lyman boat tailed 215 grain mold from Bob Meachum who ran a shop out of his basement. Figured out a way to mount the sizing dies in my old CH press using pieces of wood and hose clamps. Being broke and motivated makes one creative. We have no elk in the south of the state where I live but the Wi DNR is getting a herd started near Clam Lake at the far north. I had a ten point buck deer try to run over me on opening day. We are lucky enough to live on 40 acres.
Attached Files
I sent a thread-link to a new shooter to help him get the hang of pan lubing with out the mess and the pictures on this thread are no longer available. Is there a way to put then back in the thread? Thanks!
Attached Files
Sorry for the late answer, I blend my lube by parts of melted liquid volume, not by weight.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Greetings, RMRIX, like Pigslayer I use a silicon baking pan, mine I got from the second-hand store for $1, and it is a cupcake pan. It holds 7-8 bullets for my 45-70 in a section, and I can do a few of a couple weights at a time for comparison. The silicon REALLY make removal a piece of (cup)cake. I get better accuracy using the pan lube than the lubrisizer, the lubrisizer is .458 and the cast is .460. I melt my SPG in a pint mason jar as there are no corn fields up here for other lubricant, and use a large kettle with a trivit in the bottom with water. So far I have not been banned from the kitchen.
I find removal of bullets depends on the temp of the cooling lube; too warm and the lube squishes in the hands, too cool and the bullets break out rather than punch out nicely. For me it is a matter of timing, and that changes in the summer from the winter and how much wood is in the wood stove (another one who heats with wood, we have a lot around here in Alaska).
Once I started pan lubing and found out how simple it is for me, my lubrisizer is almost never used.
TK
Attached Files
jeff houck
20
Aaron
18
Wilderness
14
Tom Acheson
14
John Carlson
13
sghart3578
10
Spindrift
5
alphabrass
5
SkinnerD
5
cfp4570
5
