7.5X55

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  • Last Post 07 June 2011
Airdropper posted this 04 June 2011 

I'm noticing that several folks are using Lyman 311284 and 311679 bullets in their Schmidt-Rubin's.  

  Myself, I have tried both of these bullets along with several other shapes and designs.   The only bullet I have found that adequately fits the throat of either of my K31's is the 311413.   Now not being what anyone would call an expert I'm having a problem figuring out how the 311284 and/or 311679 bullets are being loaded for the 7.5X55.   I have tried several approaches including seating the bullet into the case to where the nose is just above the case mouth .     Could someone please help me here as the only way I can visualize these bullets being loaded is to throat ream the chamber; which, I believe in not allowed by CBA rules.     Thanks all

Bill

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NuJudge posted this 04 June 2011

K31 rifles have substantially tighter throats than 1911 and 1896/11 rifles, at least with newer barrels. I would immagine people using those bullets had a mold with an undersize nose, or had a K31 with a really worn throat, or they were using a 1911 or 1896 rifle.

In the K31, I use clones of the RCBS Silhouette series of molds. The Cast Boolit board has done a number of group buys for them. The noses on the bullets are .297", and the driving bands are .310” or .311".

In Switzerland, if you walk into a gun shop and ask about a Schmidt-Rubin, they will point you toward their 1896 and 1911 rifles. They apparently don't see a K31 as a Schmidt-Rubin, apparently because both gentlemen were long deceased before the K31 was developed.

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Airdropper posted this 04 June 2011

NuJudge

OK. Let's forget the 1911 and the 1896 rifles as these guys are reporting that they are shooting K-31's.

For a moment let's also forget any bullets other than 311679 or 311284 as these are the bullets that are being reported as being shot in matches {postal}. My question was and still is - how are people getting these bullets to function in the K-31's?

Now moving on to bullets that will function in them. I have tried many bullets in my rifles. As well, I know several others who also own and have tried various bullets in their K-31's. Additionally, at nationals last year I shot along with several others Schmidt-Rubin's {by any other name they are still Schmidt-Rubin's}. In talking with these folks; as well, Dan Hudson today none of them understand how people are shooting the 311679 or the 311284 bullets in them. In fact ”€œ the 311644 will not work either.

Are there bullets that can be shot in the K-31, of course there are. But doubtful the 311284, 311679, or 311644. I would like to get a mould made with a bullet design that will shoot in my K-31. However, I have not had good luck with Lee moulds and would go else where to have a mould made. Could I get you to mail me a few of your bullets so I could look at them.

Thanks

My address: Wm Gifford 13027 54th Ave SE Everett, WA 98208

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Maven posted this 04 June 2011

Airdropper, Ly. #311644, sized to .309", shot very accurately from my 2 K-31's.  However, it was a bit heavier than I desired and thus, switched to other designs.  To wit, the Lee C309-180R; Ly. #311291 and -041 work quite well as does #311466 (~160gr.).  However, Saeco #315, a tapered, truncated nose (small meplat) is my current favorite and is worth trying if you can lay your hands on one.

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Airdropper posted this 04 June 2011

Maven,

Thank you. What did you have for an over all length with the 311644?

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billwnr posted this 04 June 2011

They could be using taper dies to make the bullets fit.

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Airdropper posted this 05 June 2011

billwnr,

True, but they are not indicating that on their data forms. I'd really like to know the secret to using these bullets in the 7.5 as they are my choice for the 06 and are great all around 30 cal bullets.

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primersp posted this 05 June 2011

before i got an noe k31-180 in cast bolit group i shoot an lyman 311466 or an rcbs 30-150 sp the rcbs drop at 308 perfect for my k31

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NuJudge posted this 05 June 2011

This is the 180gr clone bullet:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=61977 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=71160

Over the years I've seen a lot of complaints about Lyman 'Borerider' molds sometimes having undersize noses, sometimes as small as .297", and these would work fine in a K31.

The K31 rifles that were brought over 10 years ago mostly had really nice, nearly new barrels. The ones that are still trickling in look more tired, and the one I most recently bought has a lot more wear in the barrel, and might well take a .300” bullet nose.

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Maven posted this 05 June 2011

Airdropper, The OAL for Ly. #311644 was 3.01".  Btw, smokiejoe made a nose reducing die* for me which allows CB's such as Ly. #311291 and Lee C309-180R to be seated out to ~2.90” instead of ~2.65". 

 

*for use in my Ly. #450 lube sizer and is essentially a specialized H & I die.

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Airdropper posted this 05 June 2011

Maven, WOW - both of my K-31's must have really short throats. To get the bolts to go into battery with the Lym 311644 bullet I have to seat them to an OAL of 2.860 inches. This seating depth just does allow the gun to go into battery and the base of the bullet is well below the neck of the 7.5X55 case.

In the next few days I am going to load up some and head to the range and see how they shoot; though it has been my experience that with cast bullets if the base of the bullet is below the neck they don't normally get very good accuracy. But, it is worth a try as this bullet is VERY accurate in my 308.

NuJudge, I am assuming that the special buy of the NOE moulds has come and gone. I think I will contact them and see if they have any left over and/or what it would cost to have one made up. I would still like to put my hands on a couple of the bullets as I'm one of those touchy ”€œ feely kind of guys.

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NuJudge posted this 05 June 2011

I believe the 180gr K31 bullets are still available. You have your choice of how many cavities.

They also have done group buys of a 165gr clone of the RCBS Silhouette. I don't believe they have any of those.

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Maven posted this 05 June 2011

"In the next few days I am going to load up some and head to the range and see how they shoot; though it has been my experience that with cast bullets if the base of the bullet is below the neck they don't normally get very good accuracy."

Airdropper, I never found that to be so in my K-31's or .243Win.  In the former, one often has little choice but to seat CB's below the neck/shoulder junction, but in the latter, there's a bit more room.  I.e., I deliberately seated Ly. 245496 below the neck/shoulder junction a la Jim Carmichael (to an OAL of 2.29” v. 2.63” normally) and got the same accuracy + 100fps greater velocity.  For the K-31's, the nose reducing die may be worth exploring.

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Airdropper posted this 06 June 2011

Maven, I have no idea how long you have been casting or shooting cast bullets. Myself I began casting in 1970 {41 years ago} and I admit - I'm no expert. I do however rely on several folks whose background in the subject is extensive. While it may not be your experience it is with everyone that I know, including myself, that seating CAST bullets below the neck of the case accuracy tends to fall off. Then again, there are some folks out there who feel a 3-inch group is great because they're shooting cast bullets and what else can you expect.

As to buying nose reducers, bump dies, etc., I compete {not very well I admit} and I look at match results. What I see is all this expense gives little if any advantage to the competitor. All one has to do is look at match results over time and compare over time the winners and losers. If their was a true advantage with the expense the same folks would win every match; but that is not the case {ask Wally Enga or Rick Bowman}. Saying this, if a person feels good about having all the goodies, so be it. I contend goodies are nice to talk about; but there is no proof in the pudding ”€œ so to speak.

NOW, I'D LIKE TO GET BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POST. I want to know how people are shooting the Lyman 311679 and 311284 bullets in the K-31. I don't care about the pet bullet that is found to shoot, I know there are some out there. What I want to know is how people are getting these two bullets to function! {And still questionable about the 311644.}

There must be some trick and nose-reducing dies would need to reduce the nose so much that I believe would cause the lower portion of the bulled to expand to 8MM or 338 Caliber. Let's face it, if you reduce one part of the bullet another part receives and lead and thus expands {that's how lead slugs are swaged into bullets}.

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billwnr posted this 06 June 2011

Airdropper wrote: billwnr,

True, but they are not indicating that on their data forms. I'd really like to know the secret to using these bullets in the 7.5 as they are my choice for the 06 and are great all around 30 cal bullets.

Taper dies are different than “bump” dies. The tech sheet only asks about bumping the bullets. A K31 shooter has 4 choices; 1 find a bullet that fits; 2 seat the bullets deep; 3 use a taper die; 4 use a throating reamer to lengthen the throat and change the angle. Actually there is one other option. Get a big hammer to help close the bolt.

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Airdropper posted this 06 June 2011

Bill, very good!! i like the hammer idea>>> reaming the throat is what i suspect, but that is not allowed per CBA rules for Military Rifles in postal or registered matches.

i now have a load worked up for my 308 and think i will shoot in the next match at Kenmore. do you remember the date for the next cast bullet shoot? i need to cast some bullets but if i can get them ready i'll be there.

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billwnr posted this 06 June 2011

Kenmore shoots the 4th Saturday of the month for regular CBA matches.

Puyallup (Paul Bunyan) shoots military matches the 2nd Saturday of the month. The next shoot comes up in 5 days.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 06 June 2011

I have a mousqueton 31  with tight bore & short throat,I used a SAECO -Redding bullet,N° 311 of about 170 grains,with one grease grve and a tapered nose..

Some pictures will follow to morrow.

MY rifle with its own throat will not  chamber  MY 311284 . There has been a great variation in Lyman diameters in all theese years.,

I preferred to find a bullet that fits my rifle, as all the other options are illegal or complicated. I like to shoot,tolerate loading and casting,but hate sizing bullets.Do not mention bumping, at my presence,please. 

I use a Saeco 4 cavity mold,a Dillon 650 progressive and sweat on my  RCBS Lubrisizer.( 310 or 311 dia,I am not sure). 

Years ago I had a long Swiss rifle ,I think some kind of 911 action,but wih a tight throat,I might say it was suited to the latest smokeless Swiss ammo.

An awkward action,I traded it long ago. 

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giorgio de galleani posted this 06 June 2011

OOPS I have goofed

this is the pictures of my rounds that fit in my own tight throat K31

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Airdropper posted this 07 June 2011

Giorgio, my brother has that SAECO mould so I can give it a try. Sure would be nice if I could get him to cast, size and for that matter load the ammo but I don't see that happening.   What are you using for an over all cartridge length.

What part of Italy is your abode? I ask that as back in my baby killing days {Obummer's buddy Bill Ayers referred to me as that} I flew into Italy quite often.

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