Plain base loads for the 218 Bee

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  • Last Post 23 December 2011
delmarskid1 posted this 29 June 2011

 Hello out there to all of my friends who know more than I do. I will be trying plain base bullet loads in my 218 Bee. My Ruger no.1 has a 1/14” twist rate. I have a few 45 and 55 grain bullets to try as well as a 60 grain gas check mold. My powders that may fill the bill are AA2, AA5, Unique, and Hodgdon Clays. I'll take Hornet data as well. I think the bullets that I have are a hardball or commercial alloy. I like this round. It has just enough more jazz than the Hornet to make it more funner.

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PETE posted this 02 July 2011

I hope you keep us posted on your progress. I've got a Bee in a Sako, with a 14” twist, that I'll try to get to this Summer. The only .22 PB bullet I have is a converted Lyman 225415. Weighs 58 grs. In order to get it to stabilize in a 14” twist Rem. 700 .222 I have to get the MV over 2100 fps. But the higher I went the worse the groups. The only bullet I have that stabilizes is a 43 gr. NEI-225-GC, so you might keep that wgt. class in mind when working with your Bee.

My personal opinion is that a 14” twist is not enuf in the Hornet, Bee, or .222 if you want to shoot CB's. A Hornet I played with many years ago had a 10” twist and really shot great with CB's.

Pete

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delmarskid1 posted this 02 July 2011

Thanks PETE. I found my oldest Lyman manual. It had Bee and Hornet loads that started at 1100 fps. using red dot. I will go that way for starts. I do like a 10” twist for the .22 center fires. I don't know why it isn't more available.

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PETE posted this 03 July 2011

Delmar,

It's probably not a nice thing to say on a CB Forum but there just aren't enuf CB shooters for the big manufacturers to make their .22 rifles in a quicker twist. Think of all the .22 cal.'s out there that there are rifles for. It's just so much easier for the makers to standardize on one barrel blank.

Of course we can always go to a custom barrel, which I did with the Hornet, but then you can't shoot in the Production Class, so you might as well go whole hog and make a custom gun.... if you want to compete in the matches.

By the way..... Midway has Bee cases again, or did a month ago. If they don't have any again and you need them you can fire form .25/20 WCF cases (hard to come by). They will come closer to Bee's F.L. than the .32/20 (hard to find to) which is also recommended.

Pete

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delmarskid1 posted this 03 July 2011

I've loaded some 45g bullets with 2g of AA2. This should make about 1000 fps. I have a bunch of cases. Molds are cheaper than barrels. This is a little side project. We shoot an informal black powder cartridge match at my club with an old time varmint class side match. I'll let you know how they shoot. I'll probably speed them up a little.

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PETE posted this 03 July 2011

Delmar,

It'll be interesting to see how those 45 gr. bullets do at 1000 fps. Might surprise us since you'll be running pretty close to Standard Vel. .22 RF. The lowest I went was 1320 fps. Best accuracy was a tad over 1400 fps.

Pete

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delmarskid1 posted this 05 July 2011

I shot my chronograph with a 16 ga slug and now fly seat of pants style. I just go by how long it takes for the “whack” in the backstop and group size. We shoot the little cartridges at 50 yards. I will take your experience under advisment. I took a guess with the 2 grain dose. My manual gave 2.8g of red dot for 1300 fps. and a gas checked bullet. I figure on starting low and ending up with around 3g of the AA2. I like this powder it meters like water. No's 5 & 7 work well also. I burned about 20# of no. 7 in my 30 caliber rifles. I made 06's on my Dillon by the gallon. I got a lot of envious looks when I'd set a 5 gallon bucket on the bench for off hand  and rapid fire practices.  

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CB posted this 06 July 2011

Pete Sez: “It's probably not a nice thing to say on a CB Forum but there just aren't enuf CB shooters for the big manufacturers to make their .22 rifles in a quicker twist. Think of all the .22 cal.'s out there that there are rifles for. It's just so much easier for the makers to standardize on one barrel blank."

Pete is right about not enough CB shooters to have a voice, but he lets the manufacturers off easy. They also all make barrels for the 223 with a one in 12 and Savage, Winchester, Ruger make barrels with a one in nine. I too would love to have a Hornet or a Bee with a quicker twist, but don't hold your breath. I have a rant on this subject for a future Fouling Shot.

John

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w30wcf posted this 07 July 2011

In the .22 Hornet, I found that 2.5/231/WSP pushing an nei 45 gr bullet without the gas check shot very well at 50 yards with some 1/2” groups.  With a 52 gr (225415), the bullets keyholed.

w30wcf  

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PETE posted this 07 July 2011

John's right. I did leave the rifle/barrel makers off easy. The makers do make rifles with twists as fast as 1-8". Mostly in semi auto's are all I've seem those fast twists in. Just barrel blanks can be gotten in any of those twists of course and was how I came up with the 1-10” for the Low Wall I made up into a Hornet.

Pete

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CB posted this 07 July 2011

The Savage M- 12 (and all their 223s I believe) As well as all Ruger's 223s ( #1 M-77) now have a one in nine inch twist. I think they are realizing that people are catching on that it is sometime nice to shoot some of the VLD bullets of 75 and up in a 223. Why they think people shooting 22-250s also wouldn't like to shoot long bullets I don't know. I'm sure they haven't gone to quick twists in the 223 because of CB shooters ”€œ but I am glad they did.

Judging from how well 223s with fast twists shoot even the usual short (40 to 55 grain) bullets the idea that a faster twist, within reason, isn't as accurate as a much slower twist seems to be baloney.

It may be true for benchresters shooting in the ones and twos but I shoot 223s (with 8 and 9 inch twists) with 52 grain match bullets against 222s 221s and 22-250s, all with the usual 14 inch twists, in local factory rifle benchrest matches for sporter or varmint weight rifles and win my share. I don't think the others think I at a disadvantage with my “over stabilized” bullets.

John

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delmarskid1 posted this 08 July 2011

I think that most shooters aren't concerned with barrel twist rates. I'm talking about the vast majority of people who buy guns and just shoot them. Not the “searchers” like us. Gun makers could use 1/10” twist in every rifle made and most people probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

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PETE posted this 08 July 2011

John,

Guess I'll have to stand corrected and admit I'm way behind the times.

I'll agree about light bullets shooting ok in fast twists. My AR, with a 1-8” twist, just loves those Win. 55 gr. FMJBT bullets.

You bring up a point I've always wondered about. How can a bullet be “over stabilized"? What happens if it is?

Pete

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delmarskid1 posted this 08 July 2011

I don't know for a certainty that over stabilization exists as an accuracy detriment. I have seen results of bullet jackets failing in a 1/7 AR-15. My friend was shooting next to me with this rifle and we could not find enough holes in the target when we went to score. We did find a bullet on the ground in front of the back stop with a little piece of the jacket folded out of it like a little door. There was no core to be found in this bullet. We also found a hole in the target with an outline of this “door” cut in the target. He was using Speer 50g TNT's for the .222. They must have had light jackets and he was driving them hard. I used the same bullet and was getting great scores but I was using .222 data. My rifle used a 1/10 twist. With a 36X scope i could almost take the staples off the paper at 100 yds. using Hornady 68's. I miss that barrel.  I hope to shoot the 45g plain base loads that I made up this weekend. I'll let you know what happens. For giggles I put a .22 pellet in the bee case in front of a pistol primer and shot it out the window. It made no noise at all. I belled the base of the bullet a little to make it stay in the case. I used foam ear plugs in .45 colt cases to train the cat.

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.22-10-45 posted this 22 December 2011

Hello, delmarskid1. I have a custom Sharps-Borchardt in .22 Hornet. The 26” Shillen barrel has 1-14” twist.
I had Fred Leeth of Pioneer Products, make up two identical 55gr. nose-pour moulds..one is P.B., the other G.C. For pure accuracy loads, the plain-base likes 7.0gr. H4227 with a Fed. small rifle match primer & RWS cases. The G.C. bullet needs .3gr. more for top accuracy. Of course the G.C. can be driven much faster..but accuracy suffers. Lube is Lyman Super Moly..which I stiffen up a bit with beeswax & lanolin. The greatest accuracy improvement I have found for these little pills is when I made up a tapered sizing die to match first band to chamber leade angle. This is used in a Lyman 45 sizer & used the sizers depth stop for adjusting band dia. also.

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delmarskid1 posted this 22 December 2011

Thank you, I will give the 4227 a try.

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hunterspistol posted this 23 December 2011

:coffee    My Hornet loads go like this, Lyman 225438 gas checked mold (45 grain bullet) with winchester cases and primers, 7.5 grains of IMR 4227.  This combination makes about 1650 fps from my 10” TC Contender barrel.   Factory for hornet is around 1800 fps.

    Adapt to 218 Bee at your own pace and liking, Good Luck,

    Ron

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