Dovetails

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  • Last Post 01 August 2011
CB posted this 25 July 2011

I have forgotten -- again. Which way you are supposed to drive a sight out of a dovetail.

Thanks, I am going to get it tattooed on my arm.

John

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RicinYakima posted this 25 July 2011

As you are sighting down the barrel: in from the right, out from the left.

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hunterspistol posted this 26 July 2011

:coffee   Thank you, that's some worthwhile information, guys!

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TomG posted this 26 July 2011

Most dovetails will eventually stretch out a little from repeated insertion of the part. When this happens, it's very easy to tighten them up again. 

Simply take a flat nosed punch and drive the thin part of the top of the dovetail down slightly.  Key word, “slightly".  Do it in steps until the part will enter about half way and be tight the rest of the way.

Tom Gray

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CB posted this 28 July 2011

Ric and Tom,

Thanks. I have done Tom's trick after the front sight on a new muzzleloader fell clean off while I was wandering around in the woods. Didn't make much difference in northern Maine where deer are so rare that seeing tracks is exciting. The gun is just an excuse to get out in the hills.

John

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joeb33050 posted this 28 July 2011

I think the business of a correct way to install/remove items from a dovetail is all a big joke, all nonsense. Think about how the dovetail is cut and formed on the gozinta, and you'll soon see the nonsense. This was started by the guy who thinks lead alloy constituents weight-segregate, and who now thinks Michelle Bachman would make a great president.

There is, after all, a difference between BS and the real world.

joe b.

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CB posted this 31 July 2011

Joe,

I have always wondered about the possibility that the tapering that gunsmiths have told me about was baloney. We have so damned many myths floating around in the shooting world and especially the cast bullet world that it is difficult to sort them all out. Of course dovetails could be tapered a bit with a small amount of file work and I suspect it would be a piece of cake for modern computer controlled machines if anybody thought it was needed, but I suspect that isn't done on production rifles.

Ken Mollohan is making an effort in his Fouling Shot articles to challenge some of the cast bullet myths and of course your book shows a healthy skepticism towards several of them but don't hold your breath for such articles, based on testing, to banish a well loved myth that is superficially logical but based on false assumptions and not testing to confirm.

John

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TomG posted this 31 July 2011

You can, in fact, run into tapered dovetails.  I've made them myself.  It's quite simple to do.  All you do is cock the part a couple of degrees when the final sizing passes are made with the dovetail cutter on the milling machine. I have a tilting/swiveling vice that can do it easily and quickly.

You'll not find them on production guns as far as I know because of the extra time needed to machine them. Theirs are probably formed in two or three machining operations in about 20 seconds. It's much easier to form a straight dovetail with a slight interference fit and then use a set screw to lock it in.

Tom

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RicinYakima posted this 31 July 2011

I don't think factory dovetails are tapered at all, but interference fit. BUT, if you always put in from the right and out from the left, you will end up with less abused slots. That means you can put something in maybe two or three times. If it is just driven through, nothing will ever fit untill the slot is reworked. Ric

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TomG posted this 01 August 2011

No, I never saw one on a factory produced gun.  The main reason I make them is for ease of starting the male part.  It's pretty easy to bugger it up if the slot is tight when trying to get it to enter.  I never had a good sight pusher and just drove them in with a squared off brass rod.

My dovetail cutters are undersize for the width of the slot to be cut.  I always use a square end end mill to make the minor width cut to the final depth first and then used the dovetail to make the under cuts. It's much easier on the tooling to do it in steps.  The last cut is canted slightly and the cuts are very light.  I keep trying the male part until it just enters the wide end and then it starts easily and still gets tight when it's in position.

I was reading up on some posts in another forum and the guy was talking about setting the sights in a M 1 carbine.  He said the proper way was to start it from the left looking in the direction the barrel is pointing.  Maybe the military does it that way or it's just an old wives tale.  go figger!

Tom

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R D posted this 01 August 2011

I think that in todays world all are cut square by the factories. Back in time when guns were made by hand I believe that the dovetails and bases were tapered so that there was a more secure fit when everything is assembled. It is hard to make a straight cut but easier to deliberately make a crooked cut with a file. This did two things, 1 it was easier to cut and 2 when the sights were installed it was more likely to stay in place many miles from any help. It just makes sense. of course I may have just dreamed it.

RD

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