Gibbs Repro 03A4 match legal?

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  • Last Post 24 August 2011
Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 26 July 2011

I have been casting bullets from wheel weights for about a year to same money and also for the fun of it. I have been doing 38's for my Cowboy Action Shooting, as you may be able to tell from my moniker I have been casting bullets from wheel weights for about a year to same money and also for the fun of it. I have been doing 38's for my Cowboy Action Shooting, as you may be able to tell from my moniker. javascript:emoticon(':fire', 'images/emoticons/fire.gif')

I just picked up a Lyman 311041 mold for 30.06 and a Lee for my .303's. I have 3 #4 Enfields, a #5, 3 Mosin Nagant 91/30's (one a repro sniper), a K98, a 1917 Eddystone, a 1917 Eddystone Sporterized,and a M1 Garand (CMP correct) and 2 M1 Carbines and just bought a Gibbs Repro 03A4

I have a question about the military modified scope category. The Gibbs has a “Weaver” 330 scope (not great optics) and a Gibbs barrel. The question is, is this rifle legal for the Military Matches, “on-site” and Postal? I really like the rifle, it looks cool and I am getting about 2.5-3 MOA at 100 yards which is great for me!

I will be trying the Military as issued with the other guns, even my M1 Carbine, although with that I seem to get about 4 MOA at 100 yards.javascript:emoticon(';}', 'images/emoticons/castsmile.gif')

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 26 July 2011

In reading the rules it says “with issue action and barrel.” in reading this it would mean that the Gibbs cannot be used as it is a new barrel, but also any gun that has had the barrel replaced, even with a G.I. barrel I don't think would be allowed as the gun was not originally issued with that barrel it was replaced. or would replacement GI barrels be allowed?

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nimrod posted this 26 July 2011

Makes me wonder too, I have a M-39 Finn that has been arsnel rebuilt with a 1967 date on the Barrel as I learn more about the M-39 I'm thinking that it was replaced by that time would this be a legal rifle for the “Issue” matches. Its the Hexgon receiver so probably has been rebuilt several times just guessing?

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argie1891 posted this 26 July 2011

most of the mil sup rifles have been refinished at sometime or other. they were sent in to arsenals to be checked out and parts were replaced. these parts included barrels so i really dont think there is a problem unless it is an after market blr. argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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nimrod posted this 27 July 2011

Thanks argie thats pretty much what I would think but wasn't sure after reading some posts. I'm new to this milsurp thing anyway got lots to learn. 

Richard

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 27 July 2011

I won't be competitive for quite a while with the Gibbs adn the “Weaver” 330 WWII 2x scope, not much better than open sites, but looks cool. I am getting 3-4 inch groups with surplus ammo from CMP at 100 yards.

Last night I went up to my gun room and checked the 1917 Eddystone sporter, the barrel HAS the flaming arrow and other military marks! Horray! I love that gun, although still 3 inch groups. I thnink the common factor is me!

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madsenshooter posted this 19 August 2011

I think the term “original barrel” needs to be changed in the rules. It should read “original contour". I don't care who makes it, the person who has it isn't going to have a substantial advantage. Case in point, literally thousands of Criterion made barrels for the 03, 03A3, 1917, Krag and Garand have been sold by the CMP. In the case of the Krag, these were the only 30” barrels available. There's so many people rebuilding Krags that a front band can now bring over $100! Some of these rebuilders had in mind shooting cast bullets, but will be turned away if they come to shoot in one of our matches. That should not be. I've read the Criterions do vary some in bore/groove dimensions, just like the originals, though not to the same extent. One could carry the term “original” too far too. I doubt a single one of my Krags has an “original” barrel, the rifles have been rebuilt over the years. Same with 1917s. Many have Johnson Automatic or High Standard barrels on them. We need to consider this rule change in order to keep from pushing potential members away.

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 19 August 2011

madsenshooter, I totally agree with you! If a barrel has the original contours as the Criterions are they more of an advantage to a “NOS” barrel? Also do barrels have serial numbers on them? Do they have to number to the gun? Have you ever seen pictures of the armorers rebuilding rifles on Iwo Jima? My Dad was on Iwo Jima (his website is www.hq224usmc.com ) and he told of having a problem with his carbine and went down to grab another one, they had piles of receivers and piles of barrels and just mixed and matched.

On my 1917 sporter (GI barrel) actually shoots slightly tighter groups than my Gibbs. A big part of that is a much better trigger on the 1917

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madsenshooter posted this 19 August 2011

Ben, I thought of something else that should be in that rule. Besides contour, the twist rate should be as issued, otherwise we'd have people getting barrels turned with 1/12 or 1/14 twist rates. Nice website, you need to take out the parentheses on the end. The Criterion barrels are marked to show their origin. How many lands and grooves in your 1917 barrel? Boy, I got a scope I'm going to have to sell that would look good on an 03, a Lyman Alaskan boosted to 6x, even has a USMC lens cap. I'd shoot the 03 anyway, what would it matter as long as you didn't set a record and try to claim it.

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 23 August 2011

The Criterions that Gibbs is using have a 1/10 to my understanding, I will check it tonight.

Right now I am using a M84 repro that is 4 or 4 1/2 one of the two.

The 1917 I have is the original barrel but someone turned it down, and mounted a front sight in it, the chamber still has the flaming bomb etc.

Who would we lobby for a change to the wording from issue barrel to original contour with military equivalent rifling (1-10)

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LWesthoff posted this 23 August 2011

Afraid I'm gonna have to stick my 2 cents worth in here. I shoot both Production Rifle and Issue Military rifle class in shoulder-to-shoulder and Postal competition. I like those two categories mainly because there is absolutely NO WAY either class can become an equipment race. You shoot the rifle the way it came from the factory/arsenal.

If you allow after-market barrels (as long as the exterior contour is replicated) you are allowing tighter, more accurate chambering, better bore to chamber alignment, and a whole bunch of other little goodies, and in my opinion you will have destroyed the whole concept of “As Issued” and “Production” Class rifles.

Sorry, but I'd vote “NO” on this one.

Wes

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RicinYakima posted this 23 August 2011

What Wes said! Ric

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madsenshooter posted this 24 August 2011

Shucks, and I was going to have this extra K31 barrel turned down to Krag carbine contour! Ben, looks like you're stuck with finding an original barrel for that 03. They used to be plentiful, not so much so anymore, which is the whole reason the CMP made the Criterions available. Good enough for the CMP, good enough for the NRA, but too good for us. And my being in favor or them isn't that I wish to use a Criterion, I've got more good original barrels than I have Krag receivers right now, it's just that I know guys who would like to play the cast game too, but they have Criterions, and no, they're not getting one of my originals. I'm done with the debate.

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 24 August 2011

No problem. I have a sporter 1917 that I like with a scope that I can use, a 91/30 with an added scope and for issue, 3 #4's, a 1917, a Garand, and a K98 or and 2 other 91/30's so I will play with them to see what shoots the best.

I bought the Gibbs because I looked neat and I haven't found an 03 or 03A3 yet that I like. I can use the Gibbs in club matches or in the unrestriced class if I wanted to and go up against the rail guns :-P

I am glad to get alot of good information and everyone seems to really care

Also I agree that Mil as issued and also the modified, it is great not to be in an equipment race.

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