first shot/ group 3" out

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  • Last Post 27 November 2011
JAT posted this 11 September 2011

Hi, I don't post much but have been reading for years??? Any way I have a question . I got a new 22 hornet low wall that I am trying to work up a load for and it is showing promise. I shoot with a lyman tang sight so groups may not be at scope standards. But I can get nice little round groups under an inch at fifty yards with many variation of A lil gun load. the problem is that the first shot of every different load is 3"s to the right. Doesnt matter hot or cold if I shot five 5 shot groups each the same load just changing the oal or grains of powder every time I shoot a new group the first hole will be 3” to the right with the other 4 shot grouping well under a 1/2” sometimes. Is the steel that sensitive to changing vibration???

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RicinYakima posted this 11 September 2011

JAT, I would guess that it is not your barrel steel. I would look at your bench technique. Is it EXACTLY at the same place on every shot? Both forend and butt stock toe? Are you checking it harder?

Do you wear glasses? When you first set down at the bench, are you looking through a different part of the lens?

Is your front bench locked down hard so it doesn't wiggle even a little?

Always being the first shot makes me think it isn't the rifle.

HTH, Ric

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6pt-sika posted this 11 September 2011

Is the first shot always from a clean barrel ?

 

I've had a number of rifles that would always throw the first shot from a clean barrel shooting jacketed or cast !

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JAT posted this 11 September 2011

yup, I wear glasses, nope doesn't have to be from a clean barrel. Most standard causes dont seem to apply. example. if I am testing different seating depths an load 5 groups of 5 shells each group .010 shorter than the last. each time I fire the first shot of the next shorter load that shot will go 2 1/2 to 3 inches right then the next 4 right into the bullseye in a nice little group. if I am working with different powder charges in increments of a few tenths it does the same thing. no time to cool down or move anything required. Real odd?? if I shoot a string of 10 shots of the same load it stays right in the group but if I change the load in anyway and start a new group the first shot will be 3” right. very consistently odd.

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RicinYakima posted this 11 September 2011

Let us know if you get any changes, as this is an interesting happening.

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JAT posted this 12 September 2011

Here is an example of what I am getting. The loan shot in each target is the first shot of the group all these groups are 10 shot groups. It appears that it is caused by a cold barrel, relatively speaking,you can still feel the warmth in the barrel. the barrel cools no more than 5 minutes between groups when I change the target. It is a 30"octagon barrel and not to heavy but sure is sensitive if I shoot multiple groups with the different loads and dont stop to change the targets it doesn't do it.

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corerf posted this 12 September 2011

That is simply insane.

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hunterspistol posted this 12 September 2011

:coffee     Vibration, maybe. If it's that heat sensitive, I think I'd look at the forearm or barrel channel mounting.  Possibly, the wood could be pressing harder when the barrel cools just a touch.  Something is causing that.

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CB posted this 12 September 2011

Try this: Fire one shot. Let the barrel cool, then fire another and let it cool, and so on. Let's see what kind of groups you get with this method.

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JAT posted this 13 September 2011

I will try that if we get another nice day, it is getting close to the end of paper shooting for the year. I would really like to get a good hunting load before winter hunting starts.

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onondaga posted this 25 November 2011

I have a NEF rifle that used to do the same thing but the first shot was 3 inches high instead of to the side.

This was fixed by polishing the bore. I use a Hoppe's Boresnake and Turtle Wax chrome polish and rust remover. It is mildly abrasive but enough so to really get the bore slick/ smooth. I use a simple method :

Put the cord of the snake down the chamber and out the muzzle but before the thick part goes in put a teaspoon of the polish in the chamber. Pull through through 10 times and start again with another dose of polish and 10 pulls. I do a total of 60 pulls, adding polish every 10 pulls. Then finally add no more polish and take 40 pulls.

This will polish the bore and make it less sensitive to the first shot and likely cure your problem. You can clean your Boresnake by soaking it with 409 or Mean Green then rinsing thoroughly and hanging to dry.

 Shooting at the range, I pull the clean Boresnake through once every 5 shots. I get no more first shot fliers.

It may be very important that I use no other cleaning method for that NEF rifle than to just pull the Boresnake through 3 times at the end of the shooting session and use no other cleaners at all except for end of season/storage grease.  It is still shooting very well for me after thousands of rounds.

Gary

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JAT posted this 26 November 2011

Interesting, might try that. to cold to do much testing now. been shooting 53 gr paper patch and they seem to do pretty good. Going to mount an A5 scope and try some more when we get a nice day. Above zero would be nice.

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72coupe posted this 26 November 2011

Just shoot the first one out into the ether. I have a rimfire target rifle that always shoot the first shot LOW. I just don't shoot the first shot on the target.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 26 November 2011

I had the same thing - first shot was ALWAYS a couple of inches to the left.

Turned out to be the bolt holding the scope mount together - pulled THROUGH the mount - a little at a time.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 26 November 2011

I had the same thing - first shot was ALWAYS a couple of inches to the left.

Turned out to be the bolt holding the scope mount together - pulled THROUGH the mount - a little at a time.

It took a couple of years.

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onondaga posted this 27 November 2011

JAT:

You didn't mention paper patched bullets at first. My suggestion above will not make a change if you have shot several hundred paper patched bullets. Paper patched bullets already polish a bore at a few hundred shots more so than my polishing method will.

Try changing the wetting solution or lube for your patches to something very different that works well for other PP shooters. Some PP shooters have success with just Johnsons Paste Wax on their patches before sizing and no lube on the bullet.

Paper Patching is an art to learn that I have only book studied and not tried.. I 'd sure like to try with my .458 Win Mag.  I have done the math and believe I know what bullet diameter, patch thickness and sizing die I need to start experimenting but haven't had the nerve yet..... Also, I am worried about yet another addiction!

Gary

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