Potential new Postal event-Practical Pistol

  • 13K Views
  • Last Post 03 November 2016
Tom Acheson posted this 02 October 2011

There has been an ongoing discussion on the possibilities of a new Postal event along with suggestions for guns allowed, shooting distances and positions, sights, etc. This started out as a surplus military handgun event but “grew” to consider other guns.

IF the event were to be configured as seen below, please respond to the poll.

Allowed handguns:

<>Out of the box production, NOT from the maker's custom shop, no alterations such as after market springs, action parts, barrels, grips, etc. <>Fixed sights <>Barrel length of 4” for revolvers and 5 1/2” for semi-autos <>50 foot shooting distance <>10-shots, with one magazine or cylinder change required, 5-shots per <>Offhand, one or two hand hold, shooter's optionIf this can be tried, the first year the semi-autos and revolvers will be scored together. Should the turnout be strong, and one type or another is extremely dominant we might consider separating the action types. And if enough military surplus guns are entered we could separate those out also, depending on scores and headcount of entries.

The target will be one that the CBA Postal program already uses to keep costs down and measure the interest. The smallest black center target now being used (I think) is the 100-yard small bore rifle target. It has an 8” dia. center (7 ring). Too big? we'll see. In 2012 it will be a one time event. Again, if interest is there we can open it up in 2013 to be a seasonal thing where we shoot once a month for 4-months. There would then be an agg winner(s) in addition to a monthly winner(s).

About the grips...many shooters personalize their guns with custom grips. In the spirit of keeping this a “production gun” event, grips offered as an optional catalog item by the gun maker for the gun being used, will be allowed.

Let's see what happens.

Tom

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
Duane Mellenbruch posted this 04 October 2011

Good Grief Tom, the non response is deafening.  Guys, if you have no interest, this is perhaps a great way to show it.  But with only one vote being cast showing interest we might as well all consider this a non-event. 

Tom, thanks for starting the poll, it was a good idea to gauge interest and show who would likely participate so the BOD could consider the course.  Looks like it is a dead topic.   Duane

Attached Files

Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 04 October 2011

I am afraid so.

I am planning to use my S&W 686 in the Hunter Class, off a rest not bad at 50 yards. I was thinking of trying one of my S&W Victorys but at 50 yards with fixed sights... well I will take it the range with me tomorrow and see what I can do, I don't hold much hope for it.

I had been thinking of getting 2 entry's one for each the 686 and one for the Victory but the Victory is not going to be competive but I will try it.

Attached Files

CB posted this 05 October 2011

I don't have any handguns that fit the criteria. My revolvers all have adjustable sights, except for a J frame. My 1911s all have aftermarket sights, and have had trigger work. Everything has aftermarket grips, you see my issues. Also, this is the first time I've seen the post.

Attached Files

Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 05 October 2011

anachronism The J frame would be perfect for this shoot, 50 feet that gun would fit right in.

Attached Files

CB posted this 06 October 2011

A 2 inch J frame against 5 inch 1911s? I at least need to be somewhat competitive.

Attached Files

Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 06 October 2011

ah ha, I was thinking 4 inch, it is a snubby, yes then I agree with you. Although with my shooting you could beat me with it! Also so far from what I have seen there isn't much interest.

Luckily at my home club in Mass we have Military Pistol shoots which are a blast!

Attached Files

PETE posted this 06 October 2011

Sounds like it might be an interesting match. The only gun I have that might qualify is a Colt Army Special in .32//20 WCF. I'd have to come up with some factory grips tho. Shouldn't be much of a problem to find. I didn't see any mention of caliber restrictions. Are there any?

These and maybe some other problems might be why many aren't responding to the poll. If I can find some factory grips and the caliber is OK then you can count me in. Otherwise.......

Pete

Attached Files

Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 06 October 2011

To my mind any caliber shooting cast bullets would be ok. It would be out of the box production, if the grips were offered in the manufacturers catalog they would be allowed. If we get enough of a response then we would probably split the classes, revolver/pistol next year or maybe even this year if there were enough. I was shooting 50 feet with a Sigma 9mm the other day, my group was the size of the target 8 1/2 x 11 LOL, I need to be in the barn to hit the side, but I have fun!

Attached Files

PETE posted this 06 October 2011

Ben,

Well when my gun was made I don't think Pachmyr grips were available. :-) If Tom says the caliber is OK I'll start looking for factory grips.

Pete

Attached Files

Tom Acheson posted this 07 October 2011

Pete,

Was out getting sight settings for my 74 Sharps at NRA rifle silhouette targets yesterdaay so got behind on e-mails. Choice of chambering (caliber) isn't a qualification. The only ammunition interest the CBA would have is that it be a centerfire round that uses a lead projectile.

Tom

Attached Files

PETE posted this 07 October 2011

Thanks Tom, will start looking for some factory grips then. Will mark down a “yes” on your poll with the provision of course that I can find the grips.

Anyone have any idea where I might find a set of grips? A seller at one of the gun shows shows up once in a while but might be all Winter before he'll be there again.

Pete

Attached Files

Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 07 October 2011

I have extra S&W Victory grips, but don't think they would fit and wouldn't be correct for a Colt.

Attached Files

Brodie posted this 08 October 2011

I would love to participate in such a match, but my problem is the same as many others; I don't have handguns that fit the criteria.  My 1911 has been acurrsed, trigger work, target sights, etc.  My revolvers all have adjustable sights and barrels longer than 4 inches except a ruger 38 LCR . 

I think that if you folks want to hold a practical pistol match you are going to have to write rules that reflect the modern handgun.  It is fun to play with these old collectors arms, but face it not a lot of the members have access to them or a great interest in them.  The number of responses on your poll should give you a good example. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

Attached Files

PETE posted this 08 October 2011

Well, lucky me..... Got digging around and came up with a Colt SAA in .44/40 and 5 1/2” barrel. So guess I'm in if this match flies.

Pete

Attached Files

Tom Acheson posted this 08 October 2011

I expected a response similar to Brodie's sooner. He makes some good points. 

Lurking behind the polling effort was an effort to apply two items in exploring the potential for this type of Postal event.

Ø  Having been present at several CBA Board meetings where equipment rules are debated and voted on where much consternation develops as equipment rules are established, keeping this simple was thought to have broader appeal. At our club we host an annual First Time Silhouette Shooter's Clinic with the goal to clear some of the fog that so many convoluted equipment rules generate AND get a first time shooter to come out from behind the fence and actually step up and give it a try. For many years IHMSA (Intl. handgun Metallic Sil. Assn.) was able to hold true to a true “Production gun” category. They momentarily stepped in it when they tried an ill conceived gun retail price ceiling which prevented the then new Freedom Arms revolvers from being used in the Revolver category, forcing them to be in the Unlimited category. But eventually that stupidness was dropped. (The FA revolver now dominates the IHMSA Revolver category.) The Unlimited category is like the Cub Scout Pinewood Derby. You get a block of wood, two wooden axles and 4 wheels and nails. You have to keep it under a certain weight limit. The CBA's LRH and IHMSA's Unlimited are similar with the only major limitations being barrel length (15”) and weight (under 7-pounds). We should work towards a true Production gun equipment rule for our new “game”.

Ø  Speaking of games. At times it may seem to the “average” CBA member as if the CBA might have too much focus on the BR match program. The CBA is comprised of a lot more members who don't shoot the matches than who do. Some people are adverse to “competition”. And if they are tempted, they convince themselves that they don't want to get involved where they perceive it to be an equipment race or them being outgunned by another shooter who has this and that accessory. If we are going to tempt those CBA members who have resisted “competition” it has to be seen as simple and without any shooter having an equipment advantage if everyone abides by the “production gun” mindset. Want to jazz up the gun? Go ahead and have fun but you'll need to shoot in an existing Postal event. Let's try to offer something that the historically non-match CBA member/shooter might give a second thought towards about trying.

Off the soap box. 

Tom

Attached Files

Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 09 October 2011

Pete has a Single Action 44/40 with a 5 1/2 barrel and another has a Webley with a 5 inch barrel and I have a 1917 with a 5 1/4 barrel.

I agree with Tom that we want this to be a simple as possible, Production guns with fixed sights(as issued/produced). Originally it was conceived as Military Issue, but it is now any production gun with fixed sights, such as the S&W Model 10 or the Colt Official Police, or the 1911 Government Model. We already have the hunter class that allows most anything with a very few restricions, weight, 10+ barrel and trigger pull, you can certainly shoot there is you have a rebored gun or adjusible sights, I am using my 686 with a 65 inch barrel in the Deer Hunter match.

Since this would be the first match and revolvers and pistols will compete in the same class, I propose that there be a single barrel length of 5 1/2 inches for both Revolvers and Pistols. That would simplify things although if you only had a snubby you might be at a disadvantage (although there is a guy at the club who shoots 1 inch groups with a snubby, while I struggle with 6 inch groups from a 5 inch barrel.

If this catches on we could do 4 classes, Revolvers 5 1/2 and under, and the second 3 1/2 inch and under. Pistols 5 1/2 and under and the second 3 1/2 and under (Walther PPK, which I love)

THis would not be a match for everyone, since some people don't like fixed sights but yoiu can pick up a cheap fixed sight revovler for less than 200 at most gun shows. Even in Mass we are not YET limited to how many guns we are allowed to have, although since we are required to have gun licenses and your getting one, or renewing one is totally up to the local Police Chief, if he decides you have too many he can and has refused to renew a license in which case you lose all your guns, no license no guns.

In fact there is a new proprosal in Mass, that is you buy a gun you have to notify the police within 24 hours that you bought it and you have to tell them exactly in your house you are keeping it, you also if you have more than 10 guns of all types have a “vault” as well as an electronic alarm professionally installed by a state approved alarm company and you have to give the police the codes and passwords for the alarm (you can always trust the police)

Sorry I got off track, I was trying to think which 10 guns I would keep if I had to get rid of the rest...

THIS NEW MATCH SHOULD BE A FUN MATCH, EASY TO ENTER and not an equipment race. all compete in the same class with the target scored rather than groups.

Attached Files

CB posted this 09 October 2011

I feel that the majority of the revolvers out there in the hands of potential competitors will have adjustable sights. As I said before, my only fixed sight revolver is a 2 inch J frame. My other revolvers have adjustable sights, and have had light trigger work done. Does anybody even make a quality fixed sight revolver any more? For that matter, what is the difference between my Colt 1911 with Novak sights, and a factory Springfield or Kimber which offer the same sights, or near exact copies from the factory?

Attached Files

Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 09 October 2011

Ruger makes the New Vaquero in .357 and .45, a Colt style SAA.

I am a Smith guy, belong to the S&W collectors association, anyhow Smith and Wesson makes a quality revolver. We won't mention the hundreds of thousands of the used ones out there but current production for fixed sights

Revolvers - all these are integral U channel sights built into the top strap Model 10 .38 Sp 4" Model 22 .45 ACP 5 1/4 inch Model 58 .41 Magnum 4" Model 64 .38 Sp 4" Snubby's Models 637 640 642 340 649 6389 442 637 438... Pistols - dovetail drift rear sights S&W 1911's a bunch S&W M&P series, .45 9mm .40's

On the factory Springfield, if it is a Government model with only the crude dovetail or a novak that has no adjustment screws, rear sight that has to drifted with a hammer that would be in this shoot.

My first thought had been the military / Model 10 / cowboy gun type fixed sights, the crude U built as integral to the top strap although even those can be adjusted by a file, although only once, but I don't see the problem with “fixed” sights of the drift type, you cannot drift them at the shoot.

I am going to try to drum up interest for a Military Handgun shoot with only Military Issue and replicas at my local club, the current military shoot they have allows me to use my Gold Cup National Match 1911, those are not military sights. But know how much interest I will get, sort of like here.

Attached Files

Brodie posted this 09 October 2011

Allow me to make a correction; my Colt combat commander had fixed sights, but they are aftermarket.; the sights on my 36 navy cap and ball are origional, but the rear sight moves when the hammer goes down to fire thus it is not really a fixed sight.

I do not understand what the advantage of adjustable sights would be at 50 ft any way.  especially since most handguns come with adjustable sights as factory standard.

B.E.Brickey

Attached Files

PETE posted this 09 October 2011

OC,

The advantage of adjustable sights is that they are adjustable to whatever POA you want. That's the point. And that's why most buy a gun with them on.

With a fixed sight you either have to be lucky and find a load that shoots to POA or figure out where to hold off to hit anything. Most factory fixed sights will get you close with a specific brand of factory ammo. But in target competition close don't ring the bell.

Pete

P.S. Got to looking over the rules again and noticed something I hadn't before. Barrel length--- 4” for revolvers, 5 1/2” for semi-autos. My Colt Army is 5” and as mentioned the SAA is 5 1/2". Guess that leaves me out, plus most that have been contributing to this thread.

Attached Files

Show More Posts
Categories
Search
Popular Tags
This Weeks High Earners
Hot Topics
Close