reloading equipment for .45-70 black power?

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  • Last Post 24 October 2011
leadlober posted this 19 October 2011

I found a “temporary fix” for my .45-70 craving at the local gun show when a H&R 1871 Bufffalo Classic followed me home. My reasoning was I would “get up to speed” on this less pricey rifle and assemble the components, tools and experience needed for reloading BP, and be more confident making the purchase of a vintage rifle. Well, that lasted 2 whole days after finding a nice vintage Trapdoor Springfield yesterday. I do have some questions and I know there are many opinions about one brand over another but, since I have to buy a new set, are there reloading die sets which will work better for .45-70 BP cartridges? Adding a compression die is a must? Other needed dies? Sorry if I missed the answer in searching the forum. I am new to BP and have handgun reloading experience but never loaded for rifle. I have some store-bought 300 and 405 gr. bullets already. I plan to load for target shooting on a rockchucker press and cast my own bullets when I figure out which bullet(s) work for my rifle(s). Thanks! Leadlober

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Notlwonk posted this 19 October 2011

An excellent book is “Loading Cartridges For The Original 45-70 Springfield Rifle And Carbine” by J.S. & Pat Wolf.

A compression die and also a neck expander that is a tad larger than typical expanders. The larger expanders will prevent reducing the dia. of a soft bullet when seating. Available from Buffalo or Track of the Wolf.

The store bought bullets may be a problem, they are often too hard. They should be cast of 20:1 to 40:1 alloy to expand and fill the bore properly.

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leadlober posted this 19 October 2011

Thanks for the explanation on the neck expander die. That makes sense, if I understand the process correctly, the bullet is sitting on the wad on top of the compressed powder and some shooters only crimp enough after seating the bullet to return the case to the original size with no noticable crimp or even a slight bell. Newbie question here but does this make transportation to the range challenging with bullets shifting in or out? I've ordered several books including the “Wolfe's” book and a lead hardness tester from Buffalo Arms and expect them any day now. The 300 gr. bullets I have are Mt Baldy .459 Saeco #015 20:1 w/SPG lube and the 405's are Meister .458 which I plan to clean and relube w/SPG - not sure of the hardness until I get my tester. Thanks for the response as I need all the help I can get.

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Notlwonk posted this 19 October 2011

Not sure if a wad is necessary, or wether it should be crimped....experiment!

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John Boy posted this 21 October 2011

Introduction to BPCR Loading ... http://www.wahsatchdesperadoes.com/Intro_to_BPCR_Loading.pdf>http://www.wahsatchdesperadoes.com/IntrotoBPCRLoading.pdf

Chapters for each phase of reloading BPC ammunition, including a chapter on the Trapdoor and loading data * Wads are a must to protect the bullet base * Expand the case 0.001 to 0.002 smaller than the base of the bullet for proper neck tension * In single shot rifles the only crimp is to remove the bell on the case - no more! 

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leadlober posted this 21 October 2011

Thanks for the replies and info. I'll be reading the Chuck Raithel info tonight. Looks like just the schooling I need. I believe once I show-up at the range and unleash the first few rounds I'll draw some attention and maybe find some common ground with other bp shooters. I'm looking over the mould options and from what I've read - bigger is better - as in 500gr. or more. And that will be on my list as well as a sizing die and top punch. Need to get that blue lube out of my lubesizer! Starline brass is on the way and I'm building my drop tube out of a 36” piece of 7/16” brass tube from the hardware store and a powder flask funnel. Should I cut it or leave it full length? Thanks again for the responses and sage advice! Leadlober

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runnin lead posted this 22 October 2011

You will also need to consider fouling,you will need to use a blow tube or wipe between shots. For your Trapdoor a bullet in the .460s would be a good idea. You may also consider getting a TALLER front sight for your Trapdoor. For BP lube do a search on this sight for Michael Rix & send him a personal message. His Eagle Lube is much less $$$ than SPG & works great . You could also use a larger expander for the TD & about a .462 or .463 lube sizer die. If you would like to try some fatter bullets I have some cast 1-30, .461 & .464 ,500 gr.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=100138>http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=100138

Tom at Accurate Molds can cut you these designs in any diamater you like.

http://accuratemolds.com/contact.php>http://accuratemolds.com/contact.php

He makes some NICE molds & he is FAST+ +. Good prices for quality mold,some limit on nose design.

I don't know if you bottom pour or use a laddle,for these big bullets you are better off to use a laddle,you will get more consistant bullets with a ladel on these big bullets. Before working up BP loads you may want to fireform to YOUR RIFLE'S CHAMBER using a Trapdoor level smokeless load then neck size & expand for about .002 neck tension. While you are at it work up a smokeless load for your rifles & get use to them,Accurate 5744 would be a good powder choice for this .If you don't already have one a strapon type recoil pad, the type vthat you wear shuch as a Past would be a great help for extended shooting secessions off of a bench ,especialy with a light rifle like the H&R or NEF.

Don't get it too hot by shooting  L  O  N  G  exended strings without letting it cool some inbetween or you will end up with a lead wash in your barrel that is a PITA to clean!

You don't need to have a compression die for loads that have a litely compressed load BUT as you compress more & more you start getting bullet deformation , the more you compress the more deformed your bullet gets. It WILL drive you nuts  ,you would be much better off to start off using one , it will save you some bullets & may save your sanity,maybe.Also each time you increase a powder charge make sure the round will chamber ,You can't put too much BP in a cartridge  But you can compress it so much that the brass will bulge & it will not chamber ,so in a way you can put too much in with a compression die .it realy s**ks to get to the range & find out. WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU SPEND YOUR MONEY  & MAYBE HELP TO SAVE YOU SOME

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CB posted this 22 October 2011

I too, am having a terrible urge to experiment with black powder. It's getting so bad that Santa & I have entered serious negotiations.

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leadlober posted this 22 October 2011

WoW! Thanks runnin lead for the reply and info! Eagle Lube sounds interesting and I will give it a try. I bought SPG from the local gunshop and try to support small local business when I can. In this economy they are a shrinking part of our circle of friends and relationships. I also try to support advertisers on websites I frequent. Lot's of shopping to do! I read the Chuck Raithel piece and found it to be informative. Seems like everyone has to work with the quirks of each rifle and find what works for them. I was thinking about getting some clear tubing and drilling out a case to make a blow tube. Seems simple enough and looks like a required tool. The TD I found has a very bright bore with good rifling. Being a 3 groove bore it is difficult for me to measure accurately. I did drive a .459 lead slug down the barrel and it did not fully contact the grooves but left a good, shiny impression from the lands. The resistance of the slug was consistent down the length of the bore. Looks like fatter bullets will be needed to make full contact with the bore. I have a .462 lead slug to try next and maybe I can find someone to measure it for me. I plan to do the initial test firing for each rifle using what bullets I have on hand. It will give me some idea where to go. My TD front sight is .268” tall measured from the top of the barrel and it has the Buffinton rear sight. It is a Cadet rifle with a 29.5” barrel. Still need to get a punch to cut wads or find some precut locally or place another order with Buffalo Arms. Been using a Lee 20# bottom pour to cast .38 spcl. and .45 auto. I put an order in with The Antimoney Man for a Rowell ladle among other things but have not gotten an acknowledgement that he received it. Will try to call him today. I plan to decap after I fire each round to slow down the rate of fire and toss the cases in a jug to soak. Writing notes should also give time for cooling between shots. I have a slip-on recoil pad for the H&R and thought about casting some lead to put in the buttstock. Won't have time to do much more on this project for a couple weeks. That should give me time for more reading and to wait for my tools to get here. Regards, Leadlober

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runnin lead posted this 22 October 2011

If you check this link you will find Walters Wads He also sells tin & alloyed 20-1 & 30-1 Use the bullets you have for the H&R. While waiting for Lube sizer dies I sized to .459 & went to fire form some brass with smokeless for the TD ,they tumbled & keyholed all over the place. http://www.brooksmoulds.com/links.php

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runnin lead posted this 22 October 2011

Something else to consider,changing light conditions & how you see your front sight & changes in POI .

A front sight protector.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=5300>http://www.dixiegunworks.com/productinfo.php?productsid=5300

 

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leadlober posted this 24 October 2011

Thanks! I need to fireform the new Starline brass I ordered for the TD and thought I'd load a few of the bullets I have on hand to see if they will stabilize in it. I found a Lyman 457125 this weekend and wonder if some bullets from it might expand enough to work in the trapdoor? Looked at the Brooks Moulds and have many decisions as to top pour vs. bottom pour and bullet weight and nose shape but thinking maybe the new postel. I plan to attend a BPCR shoot in a few weeks so maybe that will give me some more insight. Ordered the TD front sight hood from Dixie. What a find! Regards, Leadlober

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