Bullet lube departing from bullet in flight

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  • Last Post 21 November 2011
cat1870 posted this 19 November 2011

Hello All:

I am shooting a Ruger FlatTop .357 made in 1961. The Cyl. throats measure .359, Groove Dia. is .359 and bullets are sized .359. Bullets are made from WW + 2% tin added and from Lyman's 358429 mould. Bullet lube is ALOX. When shooting yesterday,over my chronograph, I discovered several bits of bullet lube stuck to the sky screen posts.........Accuracy was very good with most shots within 1 1/2".

I remember reading some time in the past about this happening.... Could this be a problem? I'm curious .

Thanks,

Cat

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RicinYakima posted this 19 November 2011

Even an old square groove 358429 only holds about 1 grain of lube. One out of 173 grains isn't much. It must be working ok.

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cat1870 posted this 19 November 2011

RicinYakima wrote: Even an old square groove 358429 only holds about 1 grain of lube. One out of 173 grains isn't much. It must be working ok.

I'm not sure I follow your line of thought...

Cat

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RicinYakima posted this 19 November 2011

The only way it could affect accurcy is if it un-balanced your bullet. Half coming off would not make any difference at that RPM. Once the bullet gets out the barrel, lube doesn't make any difference to anything.

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Uncle Russ posted this 19 November 2011

Ric----I forget the formula. Tell Cat how fast that bullet is spinning.

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RicinYakima posted this 19 November 2011

RPM = Velocity (f/s) X 12 _____ twist (inches)

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PETE posted this 19 November 2011

Cat,

As Ric says don't worry about it. Like you I've seen lube on the front of my chrono and even on the target face at 100 yds. a few times. I also get the GC's coming off some bullets and embed themselves in my chrono. I made a shield to keep this from happening further and at the end of the season there are quite a few GC dings and lube splashes to clean off. As far as I'm concerned it's a normal part of shooting Lead bullets.

As Ric also mentioned the rotational forces applied always amazes me when I do find lube on the target at 100 yds.

Possibly lube & GC's coming of the bullet during it's flight could affect accuracy but it'd take some long term serious testing to prove it to me. Once you can start shooting sub MOA at 200 yds. then you can worry about it.

Pete

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shastaboat posted this 19 November 2011

Lube on the screens or target means the lube is working through the length of the bore. That's what it is designed to do. Think of the rotational thrust of a bullet. Is surprising any remains at the target.

Because I said so!

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PETE posted this 19 November 2011

Brent,

The lube making it all the way to the target is what amazes me whenever it happens. Shooting indoors at 50 ft. & 25 yds. it happens quite a bit.

Some people asked how doe's the lube actually work. Centrifugal force is what keeps pulling the lube out of the bullet as it travels down the barrel, and why it ends up on your chrono frame.

Which brings up an interesting point. Does lube actually lube the bore? I've heard arguments on both sides of that issue. Witness bullets being shot with no lube.

Pete

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runfiverun posted this 19 November 2011

i am in the camp that it should all stay on or all come off at the muzzle. if you want it to come off you need to add something like atf or vaseline to soften the lube. if you want it all to stay on then you need a modifier like lanolin, or possibly some stearic acid.

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shastaboat posted this 20 November 2011

Pete, I don't have a leading problem with leading using 50% beeswax and 50% hightemp lithium based wheel bearing grease. I also use .5 gr of kapoc filler on some loads. Does a lube grease the barrel or keep it from leading? I think it does both. I'd have a hard time believing that a barrel wouldn't lead especially in cast rifle loads at over 2000 fps without being lubed. Maybe a linotype cast bullet at about 1000 fps would work without leading. I doubt it. I know that when I've reclaimed bullets from a range I've found lube still on some bullets.

Because I said so!

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 20 November 2011

hi  your form-ilation gives rotations per second     rpm is 60 times that....real dang fast in any scale    (g)   ken c

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PETE posted this 20 November 2011

Brent,

I'm like you in having a hard time believing you can shoot bullets that haven't been lubed but if I recall right there is someone on here who has shot unlubed bullets at 2400 fps or thereabouts.

On another subject you mention. Kapok. I've tried it on several occasions and haven't found it to be of any benefit for me. I figure it might be of benefit for hunting loads where you can''t always orient the powder for the shot.

On the other hand...... :) I have found a .030” card wad .040” off the powder for a breech seated .32 MS works best. I guess it shows you've got totry all the angles when working up loads.

Ken,

Yep! That's REAL fast! :)

Pete

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shastaboat posted this 20 November 2011

Pete, The Kapok is used for hunting and it sometimes helps to shrink a load to acceptable accuracy. All my cast rifle is in bottleneck cases. As you say, and I presume, when you are using a wad it is in a straight walled case.

I've seen claims of sort but then when you ask them to tell you how it's done...it's a big secret...like shooting cast at over 2500 fps in sub minute angle groups.

Because I said so!

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PETE posted this 20 November 2011

Brent,

Your right the .32 Miller Short is a straight walled case. The case is based on a shortened .357 Max. case.

Just taking a guess I'd say that those shooting lubeless bullets are shooting them out of a custom or very smooth barrel. Then you could have a well “seasoned” barrel, either from pre lubing or firing quite a few shots in the normal way to get enuf lube on the bore surface permiting shooting “X” number of bullets with no problems.

I'm reminded of shooting .22 RF's. Some conventioal thinking is that you don't clean the barrel for at least 500 shots have been put thru it, or until a noticeable drop-off in accuracy is noted. After cleaning it takes about 50 shots to bring it up to normal accuracy. A similar thing happens with big bores shooting bullets with to much lube on them. After a few shot you'll get a “wild” shot and then the gun goes to shooting as expected. I call that off shot “lube purging” and is cured by not filling all the grease grooves with lube.

So, it wouldn't really surprise me that with the proper amount of lube “seasoned” into the pores of the barrel you could get any amount of shots fired with no lube on the bullets and no Leading.

Of course this is all just supposition on my part as I've never tried it outside of shooting paper patched bullets.

Pete

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shastaboat posted this 21 November 2011

22 rim fire bullets are lubed.

Because I said so!

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PETE posted this 21 November 2011

Brent,

Guess I didn't make myself clear enuf.

Yes .22 RF's are lubed. The point I was trying to make was that after so many shots accuracy falls off and the gun needs to be cleaned. After it is cleaned it takes up to 50 rounds to get accuracy back.

Apparently the bore needs to be “seasoned” a certain amount before accuracy returns. Looking at that point a little bit further, then it would seem that after a bore has a certain amount of lube coating the bore then doesn't need any further lube for “X"number of shots and possibly you can get away with no lube on your bullets.

As I mentioned in a previous post I have no idea how those who shoot cast bullets with no lube on them at MV's up around 2400 fps. I'm just throwing out a possible solution that might work. The above might be nothing more than a bunch of hot air. So now it's time to hear from those who do this lubeless bullet trick to chime in and tell us how they do it. Otherwise all that kind of talk will be nothing but a bunch of hot air...... which forums have more than enuf of.

Pete

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