Hello from England

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  • Last Post 24 January 2012
dodgyrog posted this 21 January 2012

A quick hello from England. I have been shooting for over 50 years and used to compete with handguns at National level in England until our Government decided we were unworthy to be trusted with them! I now stalk Roe deer in the South of Scotland and target shoot at various ranges in England. I go to Bisley every couple of months and shoot there. I make and sell cast boolits in the UK and shoot them whenever I can. I believe you can never stop learning and hope this forum will educate me further. Hello to you all.;}

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nimrod posted this 21 January 2012

Hello there dodgyrog great place to learn and agree been casting for about 50 years and still have much to learn. Of course the first 45 were pretty much wasted just wanted something to go bang.

Richard

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Ed Harris posted this 21 January 2012

Welcome aboard! Please tell us about deer stalking in Scotland. Pictures would be wonderful...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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onondaga posted this 21 January 2012

dodgyrog,

Hello and welcome. I have been casting since age 6 and am 61 now and have started 2 of my grandsons. They help collect range scrap with me at our club and we alloy Lyman #2 clone alloy for our shooting.

I was a casting consultant and instructor for the education department of a Dental alloy manufacturer and retired now. There is a lot of learned members here and I've seen countless questions answered very well here.

Gary

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dodgyrog posted this 22 January 2012

Hi guys and thank you for the welcome. I am going to the Tulsa Gun Show at the beginning of April if any of you are there for a meet and chat. Ref the stalking in Scotland., it is all in man made Sitka Spruce forests. The quarry specie is Roe deer which are smaller than Whitetail and are pretty hard to stalk. The best tactic is to walk the ground and find where they travel and then set up a high seat (blind?) and wait for them to emerge at dawn and dusk. I have been using a .243 Tikka with a Hornady 87gr SP but I want to go over to using my 30-06 AI that I made up on an old CZ rifle that I was given (I fitted a Wilson 1 in 10 stainless barrel). I have an NOE mould for the 31141 style flat nose boolit and have got it to 1 MOA with 27gr Accurate 1680 at 110 yards (I guess around 1900 to 2000fps). The law over here require you use a 'bullet designed to expand' and to achieve a velocity of at least 2400fps and giving at least 1750 ft.lbs energy so I am going to try Accurate 2406 next. All comments most welcome. ATB

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dodgyrog posted this 22 January 2012

Hi guys and thank you for the welcome. I am going to the Tulsa Gun Show at the beginning of April if any of you are there for a meet and chat. Ref the stalking in Scotland., it is all in man made Sitka Spruce forests. The quarry specie is Roe deer which are smaller than Whitetail and are pretty hard to stalk. The best tactic is to walk the ground and find where they travel and then set up a high seat (blind?) and wait for them to emerge at dawn and dusk. I have been using a .243 Tikka with a Hornady 87gr SP but I want to go over to using my 30-06 AI that I made up on an old CZ rifle that I was given (I fitted a Wilson 1 in 10 stainless barrel). I have an NOE mould for the 31141 style flat nose boolit and have got it to 1 MOA with 27gr Accurate 1680 at 110 yards (I guess around 1900 to 2000fps). The law over here require you use a 'bullet designed to expand' and to achieve a velocity of at least 2400fps and giving at least 1750 ft.lbs energy so I am going to try Accurate 2406 next. All comments most welcome. ATB

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onondaga posted this 22 January 2012

dodgyrog

It will take some work to get the 31141 flat nose 173 gr to go that fast ---2400 fps is fast but is not impossible to get accuracy.

Your alloy and bullet fit will be critical. A gas checked bullet in Lyman #2 alloy that I use in 30 caliber will go that fast but not at 1MOA. I believe you will need a slightly harder alloy. Lyman #2 is 15 BHN and holds up well to loads of about 40,000 psi with gas checked bullets. You will likely need an alloy about 17 BHN for the higher pressure for any chance of accuracy.

A slower powder with a soft start would be my first recommendation. With more tin or antimony in your alloy to get your bullets to drop as cast at 17 BHN they will be lighter than 173 grains.

46 grains of H380 powder will push a 168 grain gas checked alloy bullet to 2470 fps with a pressure of 44,800 psi in the 30-06 ( from the Lee 2nd manual). This slower powder will give you the soft start and get you the velocity you are looking for at a reasonable pressure. Also from the Lee book, 40.0 gr. H4895 will yield 2440 fps at 43,500 psi with that bullet in 30-06 and be a great choice to try.

You will need a very tight bullet fit, likely .002-.003” over your slugged groove to groove bore diameter. Lube as you choose, but I tumble lube everything with 45:45:10 Recluse and have some success at higher velocities and pressures with straight Linotype alloy.

I use a Forester hollow pointing tool with my drill press to hollow point really hard alloy bullets and this makes them more suitable for hunting and would also fit your regulations well. The bullet hollow pointing will also lighten your bullet and increase velocity for that bullet mold at any given charge. With a harder alloy and hollow pointing , I believe your bullets will weigh in at 168 grains or less.

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dodgyrog posted this 22 January 2012

I agree 2 MOA would be a good result at that velocity and is more than adequate for stalking Roe deer. I'll let you know how I get on. My lead is quite hard but not pure linotype. Lube is Carnuba Red - great stuff.

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closey posted this 22 January 2012

Hello Rog, fancy meeting you here. Welcome to the forum.

Joe;)

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shastaboat posted this 22 January 2012

The requirement to get 2400+ fps with under 2” MOA is going to be hard to do. I've done it in .308 Win to 2512 fps with Lyman 311466 but never with 31141. In the 311466 I use 7 parts Wheel weight to 3 parts Linotype and home made lube. Weighs 153 gr. Muzzle Energy is over 2100 ft lbs. Best powders should be H4198, IMR 4198, 2400, SR-4759, 4227. You might need to use .5 gr of Kapoc filler over the 2400 and SR4759. Does the government actually check your load velocity?

I actually think I can push the 311466 bullet to 2400 fps in straight WW which would expand better than 70/30 WW/LT and would weigh in at approx 160 gr. If I had to start somewhere in 30-06 I'd start with 35 gr of 4198 and no filler with the 311466 in WW. Seat the bullet kissing the lands. Good luck.

Because I said so!

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onondaga posted this 22 January 2012

There is some reason behind my recommending the slower H380 and H4895. With a top end cast bullet velocity you are hoping to get, there is an advantage with slower powders. The soft start and flatter pressure curve will deform the bullet less; this is opposed to a fast powder slamming an early hard pressure peak and  deforming the bullet and cutting it up on the rifling. There will be a much lower possibility of gas jetting with the slower powders and a higher probability of accuracy.

H4895 is reasonably bulky also and Hogdon recommends youth loads with up to 40% reduced charges of H4895 and no filler. The powder does light well and is not position sensitive when used in those wide limitations right down to reduced youth loads.

I have my grandson's Savage 11/111 in .308 Win shooting at just under 1MOA with H4895 and a honed out mold Lee C-309-170-FNGC at 2310 fps. The honed out mold drops at .3112” and I size / check at .3105". His bore slugged at .3070” G to G.   Bullets are cast in Lyman #2 clone alloy. They are seated to engage  the lands .020” and extracted live rounds will show rifling engraved on the bullets. I have tried this load bumped up to 2400 fps and it has an accuracy loss and shoots just under 2 MOA out of his Savage. His bore is honed to match grade smooth, shining surfaces by me and the Accutrigger and solid Aluminum bedding of the Accustock in his model 11/111 are a good help to get this accuracy.

Gary

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dodgyrog posted this 23 January 2012

Hello neighbour, where do you shoot?

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dodgyrog posted this 23 January 2012

To be honest, nobody is likely to check the ammo although it is a legal requirement in Scotland. I think it is too high a requirement, personally, as killing deer is all about accurate boolit placement. Incidentally, the requirement in England is different - 1700 ft.lbs energy (that is it).

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shastaboat posted this 23 January 2012

My most accurate 30-06 hunting load that I developed was 31141 cast in WW with 24 gr of 2400 (176.5 gr.), 1.0 gr Kaypoc filler at 1982 fps. Equals factory 30-30. Energy is 1550 ft lbs.

Because I said so!

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6pt-sika posted this 23 January 2012

dodgyrog wrote: I now stalk Roe deer in the South of Scotland .

Now thats something thats always intrested me !

 

Oh yeah and welcome also ;)

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6pt-sika posted this 23 January 2012

I've talked with a couple guys from the UK in the last couple years that hunt Roe , Fallow and Sika I believe .

 

Anyway they showed me some pics the last time they were here . And ALL their guns had silencers on them . Seems to me they were shooting custom 243's and 7mm-08's .

 

I'd be quite happy to go Roe stalking with my little stainless synthetic Model 7 in 260 REM shooting the Nosler 100 or 125 Partition .

Killed a pile of whitetails and Sika with that rifle shooting the 125 Partition .

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 January 2012

keep in mind for a deer load,  testing the first shot from your hunting-conditioned barrel ....  for point of impact.....is more relevent than the moa of a 10 shot group.

i dont think i have had a cast bullet rifle shoot the first one right on from a “cold ” barrel ...and different lubes aggravate the placement to different degrees.  strangely usually high and right or high and left; something else about cast i dont know (g)

i have had jbullets shoot the first one where it is expected..a very light coat of kroil in the bore seems to help with j types.


re:  the power factor.... as you know, here in the us of a, we citizens think WE run the government, and have been known to yank the chain of stupid officials making stupid rules;  i am thinking i would load up about 4 of special --hot test loads--- just in case some one checks, say about 2600 fps., with a stealthy marking...and the rest with a very effective load of say 14b alloy at 2000 fps.

ken

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dodgyrog posted this 24 January 2012

Ken Campbell, Iowa wrote: keep in mind for a deer load,  testing the first shot from your hunting-conditioned barrel ....  for point of impact.....is more relevent than the moa of a 10 shot group.

i dont think i have had a cast bullet rifle shoot the first one right on from a “cold ” barrel ...and different lubes aggravate the placement to different degrees.  strangely usually high and right or high and left; something else about cast i dont know (g)

i have had jbullets shoot the first one where it is expected..a very light coat of kroil in the bore seems to help with j types.


re:  the power factor.... as you know, here in the us of a, we citizens think WE run the government, and have been known to yank the chain of stupid officials making stupid rules;  i am thinking i would load up about 4 of special --hot test loads--- just in case some one checks, say about 2600 fps., with a stealthy marking...and the rest with a very effective load of say 14b alloy at 2000 fps.

ken Ken That thought had occurred to me too. Lol

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