Help...Finished PB Bullet Did Not Fit in Chambers

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  • Last Post 14 April 2012
Southern Shooter posted this 24 January 2012

I need some help................

Last summer, I was considering purchasing a mold for my Ruger SRH Alaskan .454 Casull. I purchased it last Summer but am just now putting it to use. The mold was purchased from Accurate Mold and is a beautiful tool and cast some very nice looking boolits.  http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360C-D.png>http://accuratemolds.com/bulletdetail.php?bullet=45-360C-D.png

Anyway, I had slugged the barrel and chambers before ordering the mold. The barrel measured at .452” and the chamber throats measured at .456". I order the double cavity mold, one PB and the other GC, at .457". I wanted to make sure that when using the PB cavity that there was a good gas seal preventing leading and loss of velocity.

Well, the finished product, using the Plain Based, would only go about 75%-80% into the chambers. I just assumed all would fit together nicely.

Should I have ordered a different size mold???

Do I need a sizer??? And, if so, what size would I need to purchase???

Could this be a result of my casting method??? i.e., mold temp, lead temp, etc.???

I have used Cast Performance Bullets .452"-335-GC and they fit and performed just fine. I am shooting them at a comfortable 1070 FPS. I also cast bullets with Lee's .452-255-RF PB. They fit well and shoot nicely at 975 FPS.

Sooooooooooo, HELP??????

Thanks

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RicinYakima posted this 24 January 2012

What size are your bullets? You will have a hard time seating bullets more than 0.4565” in a 0.456” throat.

Are your cases big enough where the base of the bullet rests to fit in the chamber? Some cases have thicker walls than others. Your new bullets is much longer than the others you were using.

Did you make the bullets out of the same material that the maker used? Different alloys shrink less than others.

Yes you will need a real lube and sizer. When you are working this close to maximum sizes, you need to be able to control diameters.

HTH, Ric

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corerf posted this 24 January 2012

You will need to size the bullets.

The mold you ordered is at 457, the throats at 456. Usually (someone correct me if im wrong) you order handgun molds, for revolvers, for .0005 under the throat diameter. The bullet needs support, not a tight fit. The bullet should obturate and fill the last .0005 or the last .001 and gas seal tight.

The test for good bullet fit (again someone correct me if im wrong) is to drop a bullet into the cyl, push the bullet thru with a pencil. If it slides thru, perfection is achieved. If you have to add heavy pressure, maybe it will work. If it falls thru, its bad. If it doesnt go thru at least most of the way, it just wont work.

Get a sizer for the bullet and make it work with a good lube. With a casull your going to need it.

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codarnall posted this 24 January 2012

As a boy before taking any classes in Physics I learned a bullet fired horizontally and dropped simultaneously hit the ground at the same time. It's food for thought. Many have to think about that for a little while. Later on in life I had to worry events that occurred in time as opposed to that in distance. Or in the case of modern electronics in terms of frequency or in time. Now concerning the influence of a gas check which is inverted at the base of the bullet the questions come to mind does the check have any affect on the bullet as it seems to drag in a very long way. So for the sake of argument I'll pick and average velocity of 1000ft/sec. , probably a wee bit high. I have found checks 70 to 200 feet down range. In terms of distance that seems a long way. In terms of time it's only .07seconds at 70 feet. However, the dead give away is the check cannot be influencing the bullet as it had to have separated quite early. You see the check could only fall less than an inch in that time yet there it is on the ground dropping two to three feet. Now with gravity seemingly the same everywhere the check must be blown to the ground, turbulence etc. How some checks could make it to 200 feet I don't know. I just thought I share this notion and the question of inverted checks as the question has been posed to me many times generally surrounding “plain base“ bullets. Charlie

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codarnall posted this 24 January 2012

Try a few rounds using the check inverted. Charlie

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codarnall posted this 25 January 2012

Southern Shooter wrote: I need some help................

Anyway, I had slugged the barrel and chambers before ordering the mold. The barrel measured at .452” and the chamber throats measured at .456". I order the double cavity mold, one PB and the other GC, at .457". I wanted to make sure that when using the PB cavity that there was a good gas seal preventing leading and loss of velocity.

Thanks

My 2 cents. Charlie

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Southern Shooter posted this 25 January 2012

Yes...I think the bullet is too big. Was just looking at Lee's sizers. Thinking real hard on the .454 size...................hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm

Thanks Ya'll

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hunterspistol posted this 25 January 2012

:coffee Two years ago, I got a new 41 magnum Blackhawk.  I had a little trouble getting the first mold for some consistent plinking ammo.  Then, someone suggested the following check for size.

     You simply drop the cast bullet, nose first into the cylinder until it hits the chamber.  Then, you should be able to push it through with a pencil.  Maybe a couple of really light taps is all it should take to push it through.

      As long as the forcing cone and muzzle are tighter, that's all the bigger the chamber needs to be.

       I found one mold I had that fit about like that, used that bullet.  It was a Lyman 410610 GC.   It fits, no leading, good accuracy.  Now I have my first “thousand rounder” picked out.  Just thought I'd pass that along because it seems to work!

     Good Luck,

             Ron

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 25 January 2012

Ya might want to check your PM's before you spend a bunch of money on size dies.

Duane

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shastaboat posted this 25 January 2012

Sounds like you are shooting the bullets as cast and not sizing them. Suggest sizing to .454.

Because I said so!

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JeffinNZ posted this 25 January 2012

Visit the LA sillywet club site and read Glen Fryxell's articles on revolver shooting. His 'book' is there to download.

http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm>http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm

Cheers from New Zealand

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Sonny Edmonds posted this 26 January 2012

Personally, I run all my bullets through sizing dies. Because I found that as dropped, the diameters can vary a lot. Accurate Molds are great molds from the users I have talked to. But back to sizing... I ram all my bullets through sizing dies for the assurance that they are consistent at a certain size. My way of eliminating one “problem". Also, it is surprising when one of the over sized ones hits the die. Slows me right down. I say, “A-Ha! That's why I'm doing this!” :thinking: Uniformity and consistency. It matters to me. One small way for me to try and make better bullets for my pleasure.

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Sonny Edmonds posted this 26 January 2012

Southern Shooter wrote: Yes...I think the bullet is too big. Was just looking at Lee's sizers. Thinking real hard on the .454 size...................hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm

Thanks Ya'll I got a .309” sizing die for my 30 caliber sizing. Later I honed it out to .3105 so I am getting bullets consistanly .002” over my slugged bore of .3085” for my 30-06.

Because Lee makes a .309, and a .311. But missed the mark for my needs.

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Popgunner posted this 04 April 2012

codarnal the old theory of a bullet being fired flat at the same time a bullet is dropped only works in a vacuum. The NRA fact book says there is a difference in the real world with air.

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codarnall posted this 04 April 2012

And by how much 1 percent, 2 percent. The buoyancy of air in negligible. Charlie

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Pigslayer posted this 07 April 2012

codarnall wrote: Southern Shooter wrote: I need some help................

Anyway, I had slugged the barrel and chambers before ordering the mold. The barrel measured at .452” and the chamber throats measured at .456". I order the double cavity mold, one PB and the other GC, at .457". I wanted to make sure that when using the PB cavity that there was a good gas seal preventing leading and loss of velocity.

Thanks

My 2 cents. Charlie

Charlie, I shoot a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt. The bore slugs at .451. I size to .452 & use a gas check. I've had good results with accuracy. BUT, I have never slugged the chambers! After reading this thread I decided to do so. If I drop a sized bullet into the chambers, it does hang up and then, with a pencil & a little pressure i can push it on through. Then I took an unsized bullet, dropped it in the chamber where of course it dropped in freely and hung up at the throat. With a dowel & a few taps with a hammer I drove it on through. The throat measured .4545 to .455. Should I be sizing to .454/.455?

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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RicinYakima posted this 07 April 2012

The purpose of gas checks on revolver bullets is to solve the problem of cylinder/throat size variations. With any reasonably soft alloy, the gas check acts as a piston and helps expand the base to fill the throat. Good accuracy and little leading occurs. HTH, Ric

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codarnall posted this 07 April 2012

much to may surprise old 38spl's had no cylinder choke. Then came the 357 mag. Whoops. My Mod 27's have a very noticeable choke. The Mod 29's (2ea) not so. Factory jacketed bullet fall right past into the forcing cone of the barrel, I speculate it's freeboring to slow the rise time of pressure in the big guns. Under 1100 f/s I have no problem with pb leading whatsoever. I do need to keep the loads warm to get the necessary rotationg recoil up to hit POA.

Charlie

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mikld posted this 07 April 2012

A “rule of thumb” that has served me well is size the bullets to the same size as the cylinder throats. Example; my Ruger has .431” cylinder throats and a .429” groove diameter. I size my bullets to .431” and get good clean lead free shooting. Works with all my revolvers too...

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mikld posted this 07 April 2012

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Pigslayer posted this 07 April 2012

RicinYakima wrote: The purpose of gas checks on revolver bullets is to solve the problem of cylinder/throat size variations. With any reasonably soft alloy, the gas check acts as a piston and helps expand the base to fill the throat. Good accuracy and little leading occurs. HTH, Ric

Went to the range today. First time I shot my Ruger Blackhawk .45 colt in two+ years. (bad car accident dictated that). Here is a target @ 15 yds with about 30 rounds through it. Lyman 255 gr. SWC GC. Lyman #2 Alloy. 8.0 grs. Unique. CCI Lge. pistol primer. Guess I'll keep sizing them as I have.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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