Issue and Original Issue ???

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  • Last Post 08 February 2016
OnHoPr posted this 23 May 2012

I just joined the CBA and shot in the Ice Breaker. I have been reading the forum for a while. I was interested in the military (modified scope) and hunting classes. (It seems as the targets are a wi bit bigger than those .072 dots in bench rest.) But, to follow the rules, I have been in a quandary. Rule 5.5 of the bench rest competition states original action and barrel and rule section 5 (a) <3> issue action and barrel. So, I have been doing periodic research on rifles. Would the rifles such as the Norwegian mausers that were rebarreled to .30-06, the same with the Brazilian mausers that were rebarreled to .30-06,and the Israeli mausers that were rebarreled to .308, etc. issued or shall I say original re-issue to those and/or any particular country still be considered legal for matches? I have read a number of post and even a moderator or two have seemed to be in a similar quandary about the issue (no pun intended). If I have presented my question well enough I hope someone could clarify the issue for me. It would save a lot of time on research being a whippersnapper at this sport. Especially, when actually trying to look at a military rifle and all of its aspects. I really don't mean to bring the BAR or Supreme Court on this topic just a little comprehension. Also, can bolts be bent for scope clearance? Thanx:)

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303PV posted this 25 May 2012

My personal opinion : It is OK to use such a rifle. What about rifles that have been re- barreled to the same original caliber? You can find examples of that.

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RicinYakima posted this 25 May 2012

This is one of the questions that really needs to go to Wally Enga, National Military Rifle Chairman. But first you need to read the rules for the different classes. Issue means as issued, but you have very wide modifications and tinkering to modified and scoped class rifles. Rules can be down loaded from the CBA main page. HTH, Ric

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Wally Enga posted this 25 May 2012

The Norwegian, Brazilian and Israeli mausers that were rebarreled by that countries Military / arsenal are legal to use in CBA Military Matches.

Military rifles can also be rebarelled with another “Issue” barrel of a type used on that rifle by it's Military. You can not use a non issued barrel like a Hart or Douglas in any Class.

The Issue Class rifles must be as issued. In the Modified Iron and Modified Scope Classes the Rifle can have been “sporterized” --- barrel shortened, bolt bent, different sights and different stock, but not with a wide and flat bottom benchrest style stock --- the limits are in the rules.

The barrels in the Modified Classes still must be an “issued” barrel.

Ric --- see you out in Puyallup at the Nationals in a couple of weeks. I think there will be 6 of us from this area making the trek out.

Wally Enga

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RicinYakima posted this 25 May 2012

Wally, Looking forward to see all of my Mid-Western friends! I will get to the range on Friday with the 5th-wheel, my bride and the dogs. I'm only shooting Antique Big-Bore this year, just too tough enough to shoot two classes, old age and all. Best wishes, Ric

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 29 January 2013

I am sure this was covered before, but I was sitting here having the winter blues, lots of snow outside

I picked up a Gibbs 03A4 to compliment my 03A3 orig issue and my 03A3 sporter (they were lonely)

It has a newly made milspec 4 groove barrel, I think it is a Criterian, so I would assume this is not legal to shoot unless I rebarrel it?

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MKastning posted this 29 January 2013

Ben!  It is my understanding that you are correct about the barrel.  

I hope this works for you, the more military issue shooters the better!

Mike

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RicinYakima posted this 30 January 2013

Ben, But you could shot the light sporter/hunting rifle if it makes weight! Ric

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 30 January 2013

MKastning and RicinYakma

I might try the light sporter/hunting rifle, I did find two NOS 03 (1943) barrels in cosomoline and a shipping tube at a gun show last fall, but don't want to change the barrel yet. The other thing that I realized last year when I tried to do too many matches, is that I need to slow down and do just the ones I have time for since load development takes time. I have my other 03's and this year want to try the 03A3 as issued in the as issued class and since I had tried to do group and score I am now talking 4 matches for each match and then I still like hunter handgun and the timed fire handgun, God I am running out of time to do everything! Really need to try to stick to one gun, but...

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MKastning posted this 30 January 2013

I definitely hear you there, it is tough to get properly prepared for multiple matches. I try to convince myself that my 03A3 Sporter Scope rifle and my 03A3 Issue rifle like the same bullet and load. They are both 2 groove barrels, but I think that the scoped rifle could use a little more load development.

Maybe this year I can get things tuned in a little tighter, or possibly bed the action on the scoped rifle.

It is very difficult to walk past some new interesting military rifles at gun shows, knowing that it will start the process all over again is what (sometimes) keeps me in check.

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RicinYakima posted this 30 January 2013

Mike and Ben,

Picking a number out of the air, I think about 50 ten shot groups are required to get a good load. On another experiment, I shot 100 ten shot groups with my scoped Springfield. Found out it was not picky about powder charge, but sensitive to seating depth. And that is just of opposite of the issue rifle. The little darlings are all females.

Ric

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 30 January 2013

It is a lot of work but it keeps me at the reloading bench in my furnace room in the winter, it is warm there.

I am going start working on my Enfield #4 with generous bores.

Hey Ric - it that a Webley-Scott in your picture?

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fRANK46 posted this 30 May 2015

I've been following these very interesting threads. So here comes my question. I have an 1895 Chilean mauser that bubba has seen fit to grace it with his ideas of making it better. I would like to remove the old barrel as it has bee cut down and install a new old stock Belgian made 7mm ball blindee proof marked barrel 29” long and put it into a nice Chilean mauser long rifle stock. Has no iron sights and never had them installed. Barrel is blued all over. Would this fit the issue or as issued catagory?. Thanks,Frank

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tturner53 posted this 08 February 2016

I have been working on an on going project gun for a while. It's shaping up nicely. I bought a Chilean 1912 Steyr minus receiver from Sportsman's Guide a few years back. It came with a 7.62 NATO (used) take-off barrel that they had rebarreled their rifles with in the 60's. Original caliber was 7x57. Then I bought an ugly Oberndorf 98 receiver off Gunbroker. A friend drilled and tapped it, (not good), and the bolt is now bent and new safety installed. I didn't expect much accuracy wise but have been surprised. The bore looks well used. It's 1 MOA with a 165 gr. jacketed handload and an old El Paso Weaver K4 on it. Next is the trigger and some cast bullets.

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