.45 Cal. Flint

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  • Last Post 26 June 2012
Pigslayer posted this 03 June 2012

The accuracy of the flintlock rifle never ceases to amaze me. I have built two . . . an Issac Haines in .50 cal. & a Southern Mtn. in .45 cal. Both shoot well in that I can put three (3) round balls in a 2” circle at 50 yds. with primitive sights. I may even do better with a better rest & a little more patience. But you know, at 60 years old and having cataract surgery, I'm doing O.K.. I am at present working on a .40 cal.. I have had people tell me how “slow” a flintlock is . . . what? These things fire in 1/100th of a second! I had a good time at the range today. I was shooting my .45 cal. Southern Mtn.. It was right on time. As long as I do my part I'll keep it in the black. I'm a stckler for uniform charges so I always weigh my charges & put them in small glass vials prior to going to the range. In my .45 cal. I use 60 grs. FFF. In my .50 I use 80 grs. FF. PRB forever!!

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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JeffinNZ posted this 03 June 2012

It constantly amazes me that some people think a flintlock is less accurate than a caplock. Why would it be? The operator is the only variable. That said a quick lock is critical. When I built my Isaac Haines .40cal I stripped the deluxe Siler lock and hones every bearing surface until they will like mirrors. I also relieved the main spring so it did not drag on the lock plate. Remove all the friction you possibly can. I expect my RB rifles to cut a ragged hole at 50 yards.

Cheers from New Zealand

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docbob posted this 03 June 2012

Pigslayer, Keepin' 'em in two inches at fifty yards just ain't half bad. Us ol' timers are pretty satisfied with accuracy such as that.

Doc

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Pigslayer posted this 03 June 2012

JeffinNZ wrote: It constantly amazes me that some people think a flintlock is less accurate than a caplock. Why would it be? The operator is the only variable. That said a quick lock is critical. When I built my Isaac Haines .40cal I stripped the deluxe Siler lock and hones every bearing surface until they will like mirrors. I also relieved the main spring so it did not drag on the lock plate. Remove all the friction you possibly can. I expect my RB rifles to cut a ragged hole at 50 yards. I didn't go to the extent that you did in polishing the various parts on my siler lock but even unmodified my .50 cal. Issac Haines shoots very well. Maybe that has someting to do with having a Getz Swamped barrel. My .45 cal has a L&R Manton lock which I wasn't satisfied with due to having to rework the lock to get it to function properly. I expected better quality considering the money paid for it.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Pigslayer posted this 03 June 2012

docbob wrote: Pigslayer, Keepin' 'em in two inches at fifty yards just ain't half bad. Us ol' timers are pretty satisfied with accuracy such as that.

Doc</quote>
 Ya Know Doc,

I don't know if I could have done better 30 years ago! There has been more than a few times that I've went to the range & out shot them young bucks!! I had one fella next to me with a modern in-line with a scope and he was all over the target!! I was next door with my flint putting it in the black every time. He asked me how I did it. It's just a matter of knowing what works & what doesen't. Nuff said. Pat

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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6pt-sika posted this 03 June 2012

I had three Contemporary Longrifle Flintlocks a couple years back !

My first was a 45 cal Dickert made by Blackhart in New England , the second was a 50 cal Virginia style I got from Al Edge and the third was an Isaac Haines 54 cal that the Getz guy that makes barrels brother in law had built . I bought it from Clay Smith of ex Colonial Williamsburg fame and had him put a sliding wood patchbox on it before I took possesion . Later I had Al Edge install a changebale flash hole .

 

The 45 Dickert shot nicely and was more then likely the nicer looking of the three . The 50 cal was adequate but never really fit my correctly . But the 54 Isaac Haines was my favourite as the barrel was a bit shorter and the hole in the ned of the barrel was BIGGER also the sliding wooden patchbox I thought made it look cool !

 

Sorry but I no longer have pics of the 3 or I'd show them . Incidently my next door neighbor bought the Isaac Haines from me and now has it hanging over his fireplace . He's had it about 2 years now and has never fired it .

 

The only thing I have left in this category is an original half stock 36 cal caplock that was made in western PA back in the 1845-1855 time period by A.B.Smith . I shoot that one occasionally now , but we owned that gun 30+ years before I ever fired it . This one was gone over before we got it by another of the Colonial Williamsburg gunsmiths of the time John Lauback . We traded him a 1916 DWM Luger in about 90% condition for the rifle .

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onondaga posted this 03 June 2012

Years ago I foolishly sold my  kit built 45 cal. flint  Lancaster County Squirrel Rifle, an earliest  Turner Kirkland. I had to have an AR15!  I miss the flint rifle more than any rifle I have ever had. It was a wonderful shooter and reliably grouped 1 inch or less at 50 yards with 70 grains FFF.

I am a flint knapper so I  knapped my own flints from the local Onondaga Flint here in Western New York. I did try some Agate for sparkers too and they lasted over 100 shots per edge!

That rifle had fine double set triggers and all parts were polished for a 2 pound pull when using the double set.

It took me a whole season as a kid to realize why my lock time seemed so slow! An experienced flintlock shooter told me to use much less priming powder in the pan. He sure was right and flash time went to zero to light the main charge. Too much powder in the pan makes a big flash before it lights the main charge.  Some shooters never figure that out and think more powder in the pan is better..

I took several deer with that rifle, a self defense kill shot against a wolf, and I barked dozens of squirrels with that fine shooting smokepole.

Gary

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Pigslayer posted this 06 June 2012

I too found that not much flash powder is needed and also to keep it back from the vent a little.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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sharps4590 posted this 08 June 2012

There is a simple elegance to the Southern Mountain rifles that few others can compare to, especially if it is a flintlock. Pig, good looking rifles and good shooting. I'm just a few months behind you and I still shoot most of my squirrels in the head with my 36 cal. Southern Mountain flinter. 'Course I get as close as possible before shooting. 30-35 yards is a longish shot for me.

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Pigslayer posted this 08 June 2012

sharps4590 wrote: There is a simple elegance to the Southern Mountain rifles that few others can compare to, especially if it is a flintlock. Pig, good looking rifles and good shooting. I'm just a few months behind you and I still shoot most of my squirrels in the head with my 36 cal. Southern Mountain flinter. 'Course I get as close as possible before shooting. 30-35 yards is a longish shot for me. You know, In my .50 I shoot a .490 ball with a .010 patch & in my .45 I shoot a .440 ball with a .010 patch. I've had good results so far but am considering going to a .015 patch so as to tighten up my group a little. I use nothing but “Old Zip Patch grease” for lubricant. I actually bought it on a whim from Dixie gun works. I find with that lube, the sixth shot loads as easily as the first!! You guys intimidate me with the head shots on squirrels, don't know if I could do that! But I do know this, a deer doesen't have a chance with my flinters at fifty yards! Last year I had my .50 cal. Issac Haines at the range & I was putting round balls at very low dead center at 100 yds. With a little Kentucky windage I got it to center.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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JeffinNZ posted this 09 June 2012

I would suggest your patch is 1/2 thick as it or should be. If you try some 18-20 thou patches I think you will see things really tighten up.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Pigslayer posted this 09 June 2012

JeffinNZ wrote: I would suggest your patch is 1/2 thick as it or should be. If you try some 18-20 thou patches I think you will see things really tighten up.

Me thinks you're right.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Pigslayer posted this 09 June 2012

Pigslayer wrote: JeffinNZ wrote: I would suggest your patch is 1/2 thick as it or should be. If you try some 18-20 thou patches I think you will see things really tighten up.

Me thinks you're right.

Just got on line with Track Of The Wolf & ordered pillow ticking patches in .018. I also ordered a nice vent pick . . . 'bout time. I like dealing with both Track Of The Wolf & Dixie gun Works.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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onondaga posted this 09 June 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=80>JeffinNZ: I think the fellows that can't get that thick of a patch loaded have used lead that is too hard for their round balls. Dead soft pure lead is the ruler here,  with truly soft pure lead you can use RBs at bore size with a patch!

Gary

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Pigslayer posted this 10 June 2012

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=80>JeffinNZ: I think the fellows that can't get that thick of a patch loaded have used lead that is too hard for their round balls. Dead soft pure lead is the ruler here,  with truly soft pure lead you can use RBs at bore size with a patch!

Gary My roundballs seem pretty soft as I can easily scratch them with my fingernail. I was told by the seller of the lead that it was pure soft lead . . . but then people lie. LOL Wish I had a hardness tester. Good lead is getting harder to get & I have been thinking that I'm going to start buying all my lead from Rotometals. It's clean & the alloy/purity is always right.

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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onondaga posted this 10 June 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6171>Pigslayer:

I have the Lee Hardness Test Kit.  If you ever have any bullets or small ingots you would like tested with the Lee Kit, just PM me for mail info. Odd samples only need to be about the size of a penny or up to the size of a 1 pound ingot. I'd test them for free and email you the results, but I get to keep the lead!. I have done this for others, no problemo. It is best to number samples so I can send you a result for each number. I will test up to 10 pieces for you.

Gary

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Pigslayer posted this 11 June 2012

<user=6317>sharps4590 wrote: Pig, I guess I have to confess to another “crutch” I use to make those head shots.....if not easier at least consistently doable. I punch a hole of about 1/8 in. through a roll of tape, using a leather punch, the kind with the wheel that rotates. Then I trim up the tape to about 3/16 and stick it on my glasses. Trial and error will give you the correct location on your lense. Were it not for that I'd be taking ribcage shots.  That's good shooting my friend! I actually have one of those little devices that I got from Brownell's . . . somewhere. I never used it due to the suction cup on it landing right where the line of the bi-focal was and it wouldn't stick. Actually since having cataract surgery my eyesight is razor sharp although my close up vision such as rear sights are a little fuzzy but not enough to impair my shooting. I'm going to have to dig that device out being that I have the “no-line” progressive bi-focals now. I started shooting flinters about 11 years ago and when I got them to shooting 3 shots in a 2” circle @ 50 yds. I never pushed for better being that that was plenty good enough for whitetail. But now that I'm playing with them again I'm going to see just how good they can shoot! Of course the .45 & .50 cal. are a little big for squirrel. I'm building a .40 cal now and am anxious to see how that will shoot. I was, for most of my life a high powered jacketed bullet junkie and via that have made some incredible shots over the years with my 7MM Mag. & my .270 Win but then those two are probably two of the flattest shooting rifles ever made. Those high powered rifles bore me now. Patched round balls & primitive sights are so much more fun. Head shots on squirrels . . . let's see . . . yep, I could do that . . . even today. Just have to work at it. But even at that, 50 yds. is a fair distance to be doing that. I believe I'd let Mr. squirrel get a little closer if I wanted him in my frying pan. LOL

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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sharps4590 posted this 13 June 2012

That is funny...I have the optical device from Lyman that uses a suction cup and the only reason I don't use it is because........it won't stick to my lense where the bifocal is...lol!

Close is good....closer is better!! I rarely take a shot outside 25 yards and 30 is way plenty. I prefer 20 yards. I can see the squirrel and see the sights but seeing the squirrel AND the sights is a bit tough these days. However, 2 weeks ago I did take one through the head at 40 long paces across level ground. It was pretty open woods, I could see the squirrel exceedingly well because of where he was and I've been shooting quite a bit this spring. Still, I'm giving it 60% good fortune.

I guess most of us played the smokeless powder and jacketed bullet game for quite a while. I did up until about the mid to late 80's then went all cast except for my 1000 yard target rifle. I believe that was the last jacketed bullets I fired as I sold the rifle in 1999. Except for handguns at long range and that rifle I guess I've been all black powder since about 1995 or so, either muzzleloaders or BPC rifles. The last jacketed bullets I fired in a revolver had to be about '82 or '83. Goodness....doesn't seem like it was 30 years ago...LOL!!!!

I agree with you regarding them being boring. For me, there isn't that much challange left to make a good bolt rifle topped with a good glass shoot MOA or less. Cast bullets make it more fun but still, kinda boring. Now, shoot a 3 in. group with black, a PRB and open sights at 100 and you've done something. Or, shoot MOA with a BPC and a good set of aperature sights and I feel a lot more satisfied, especially when that happens at 600 yards. I believe you'll find the 40 cal. ML quite accurate and it should shoot around an inch or under at 50 off a bench.

Flinters I started shooting about 1977. It was an on again/off again affair for maybe 10 years. Splitting time about equally with flint and percussion. I have a couple pretty decent custom percussion rifles but haven't fired them in years. I have been playing quite a bit with a Pedersoli Kodiak double rifle and it's a percussion but that's the first time in years I've busted a cap. That rifle has been a challange to get regulated to one rear sight but I keep creeping closer.

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Pigslayer posted this 13 June 2012

sharps4590 wrote: That is funny...I have the optical device from Lyman that uses a suction cup and the only reason I don't use it is because........it won't stick to my lense where the bifocal is...lol!

I figured you'd like that!

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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Pigslayer posted this 13 June 2012

Pigslayer wrote: Pigslayer wrote: JeffinNZ wrote: I would suggest your patch is 1/2 thick as it or should be. If you try some 18-20 thou patches I think you will see things really tighten up.

Me thinks you're right.

Just got on line with Track Of The Wolf & ordered pillow ticking patches in .018. I also ordered a nice vent pick . . . 'bout time. I like dealing with both Track Of The Wolf & Dixie gun Works. Got home from work today & my .018 patches & my cool vent pick were waiting on me from Track Of The wolf!

If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.

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sharps4590 posted this 16 June 2012

Well good!! So are you going to burn some powder this weekend utilizing that new patching amterial?

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