Update on Kodiak double rifle in cal. 50

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Last Post 14 July 2012

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sharps4590 posted this 16 June 2012

Since the last post on this rifle I've put a lot of powder and lead down the bore. I'm convinced I have it about as far as I can take it, regarding regulation, with just loads. In the broadest scheme of things I expect it's a livable compromise. Still a little crossing and obviously the barrels do not shoot to the same POA with one rear sight. Shooting again at 50 yards, hands rested and rifle held, no butt bag. 450 gr. Accurate Molds bullet from staight lead and 80 grs. Ffg Scheutzen. Card wad over powder and newsprint wad over card wad. For around here and the ranges at which I take game, it's certianly “minute of deer". I will be shooting it at 75 yards to see how it does. That's about as far as I should be shooting open sights on game these days. The two shots outside the black should be disregarded. I was attempting to “Kentucky Windage” those into a better composite group.....obvoiusly I failed..

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CB posted this 17 June 2012

It certainly appears adequate for deer. It looks like you're just beyond the point where your barrels cross. Is there any adjustment possible on your rifle?

Hey! I use the same Churchill quote as a sig line on a couple of other boards.

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sharps4590 posted this 17 June 2012

No, no adjustment on the rifle other than to unsolder and re-regulate the barrels at this point, and that is far beyond my abilities. I would dearly love to find a 500-525 gr., 50 cal. muzzleloading bullet, short of having another custom mold made. I believe, if the 1-48 twist would stabilize it, I would have the crossing solved. If so, I would have another mold cut. Then, the elevation difference I could live with, I think, and use one barrel for in close and the other for farther out. Which is what I may end up doing anyway.

Churchill....probably one of, if not the, most quoted individuals of the 20th century. What a guy.

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onondaga posted this 17 June 2012

Have you considered regulating the loads and having different charges for each barrel to get the both barrels to hit at the same POI at a range you select. Even something as simple as different wads or different bullet lube will effect point of impact.

It could be a road of experiments , but I believe you could get both barrels to print same POI at say 75 yards if that is what you choose.

Gary

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sharps4590 posted this 17 June 2012

Gary, thank you for the suggestion. Yes, I tried that, and for all intents and purposes accomplished regulation. However, it took two different charges and two different bullets. That might be ok for range plinking but I'm not going to attempt to hunt that way, I know what I would end up doing...lol!!!. The target shown and a few more so similar that it would be redundant to post them was the result of about 3 months of experimenting with 4 different weight bullets and PRB, powder charges from 40 to 100 grs. with Scheutzen, GOEX and Swiss, different lubes and with and without wads. Over a pound of Scheutzen alone has been consumed. I've been playing with doubles for about 20 years now. I should have received at least a Masters degree, if not a Phd., in reloading for doubles after I got a load that would regulate in my first double, a German rifle in 43 Mauser. That one was an education to say the least!!!!! Sadly, except for the heavier bullet, I believe I've about ran the course.

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CB posted this 17 June 2012

You'll know far more about this than I do, but have you tried a slightly lighter bullet to see what happens there? Perhaps a lighter bullet might raise the POI of the left barrel a mite. I looked over my meager supply of 50 cal ML moulds (both of them), and the heaviest I have is a 375 gr Lyman/TC. I've also got one of the obligatory TC Maxi-Ball moulds. I haven't shot black powder for ages.

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sharps4590 posted this 19 June 2012

anachronism, it might, but it would also cross more, ie shoot more to the right, and that's the biggest thing I want to eliminate. Thanks though.

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sharps4590 posted this 14 July 2012

I can update this again! Things are looking up. I ordered a .505 die and last weekend tried the new size bullets. Results were somewhat encouraging as the rifle acted as if it wanted to shoot a composite group. Using the old “if a littl's good then more's better” reasoning I ordered another die at .501. I sized the last 16 bullets I had cast andheaded to the bench. The first taret was almost a repeat of some earlier targets with 2-3 inch crossing. On that load I just dumped the charge and seated the bullet with no wiping betweenshots. I had never tried wiping between shots and decided that the next string I would. I also tamped the butt of the rifle on the ground 8 times every time I dumped a both charges. The results are below.

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onondaga posted this 14 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6317>sharps4590:

The percussion nipples on a Kodiak double are almost directly inline, they dump the primer flash straight into the main charge without using a drum like a traditional percussion single shot rifle. I honestly don't think tamping your rifle butt is doing anything more than damaging the finish on your rifle butt.

If you are concerned about getting an even light from your primers, I don't think tamping the rifle helps any more than a couple slaps with your hand to the receiver with the muzzle up. .

Could you have just been doing the tamping for good luck? If you truly think the tamping does something special, what is it you think is happening from the tamping?

Either way your group is impressive!!!

Gary

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sharps4590 posted this 14 July 2012

Gary, I don't know this but I thought the Pedersoli had an ante-chamber, kinda like a little flue in the breech plugs. Not so? I wasn't concerened with good ignition as much as an even burn.

Whether the ante-chamber exists on the Pedersoli or not, the tamping does settle the powder charge, condense it a little if you, while it's in the chamber. Of that I am convinced. 8 times?...arbitrary # chosen from the air. I had noticed on earlier outings that tamping or not tamping made a difference in accuracy, cannot tell you why.

I suspect the wiping between shots and bullet size may have have been as much or bigger factor as tamping. Certainly worth a session at the bench to find out.

It's still crossing just a bit but I would consider that a fairly decent, round composite group.

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onondaga posted this 14 July 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6317>sharps4590:

OK on the anti-chamber. The traditional heel of the hand slapping the side of the rifle will get powder in there just fine.

Consider this suggestion. The seating pressure of the bullet is really what gives “evenness to the burn” as you are calling it. Small differences in bullet seating pressure do effect point of impact. This parallels neck tension and load density in brass cartridges or wad pressure in shotgun slug loads.

When I bench shoot a muzzle loader, I take an analog bathroom scale to the range. During loading I plant the rifle butt on the scale on the ground and drive the bullet against the charge till the scale reads 80 pounds and hold there for a 5 count. This gives a reasonably constant bullet seating pressure to help eliminate that variable. The range seating with a scale also habituates my bullet seating so that in the field I am pretty sure that my bullet seating is darn close to 80 pounds for 5 seconds.

That loading procedure has definitely given results in smaller group size for me over many years and it has also helped everybody I have demonstrated it to at the range. I believe I originally read about that technique in a very early Dixie Gunworks catalog written by Turner Kirkland in the early 1960s.

I only use 3F Pioneer Powder (a BP substitute with no sulfur) now as my asthma will take me down from sulfur smoke now. It is not a powder with terrific accuracy reports. But with charge weighing to equal the average weight of the volume measure I desire, the Pioneer Powder used with the 80 pound bullet seating is giving me groups less than half of what you are getting out of either barrel on your Kodiak. That powder also leaves the barrel incredibly clean and loading is very easy even after hundreds of shots and many range sessions during a season. I only lube my bullets very lightly with straight LLA or 45:45:10 Recluse tumble lube. Oily or greasy lubes used with bullets or on patches with round balls and Pioneer Powder will definitely leave a mess in your bore. So if you try Pioneer Powder, be aware of that too.

Gary

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sharps4590 posted this 14 July 2012

Last Tuesday I received the case of Scheutzen Ffg I ordered. I don't think a substitue is in my future. You had mentioned your asthma and sulphur before, I regret that for you. I'd do the same as you have done.

My pressure on the load I believe is fairly consistent and that's always a good piece of advice.