Help Unburnt Powder In my 44-40!

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  • Last Post 25 March 2009
44-40 posted this 15 March 2007

Using a Model 94 winchester, 11 gr of Blue Dot, 200 gr jacketed bullet, winchester cases& primers. When Fired it leaves powder in barrel and chamber. Bullets are seated to Min overall length as per lee loader manual and I am using max crimp on my factory crimp Die. Help. Not sure what to do next.Maybe try reducing amount of powder slightly to till i find it burns all of it.I am new to this hobby and this is my first try at reloading.

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R. Dupraz posted this 15 March 2007

44-40:

Have never had a 44-40 but have loaded and shot a lot of rounds in other pistol and rifle calibers. Your problem suggests to me that blue dot burns too slow for your 200 gr. bullet. Whenever this has happened to me,I just switched to a faster burning powder.

I must add though, over the years I have loaded some pistol calibers with powder that left a few unburned grains in the bore. The same with shot shells. But the loads shot good and the very small amount of unburned powder was never a problem, so I kept on using the load.

You write of maybe reducing the amount of powder. What does your manual say? I would never reduce the powder below the minimum charge that your manual shows for that cal.,powder and bullet weight.

R.Dupraz

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CB posted this 15 March 2007

44-40,

From my experiences, dropping your powder charge is not going to work. You need a higher powder charge to get an increase in burn efficiency. A couple of us at Windhill use 13gr of Blue Dot in about any .30 caliber rifle cartridge with a medium weight bullet of 180gr to 200gr. Your 94 Winchester should handle the load with no problem. Watch for high pressure signs and you could probably go on up to around a 15gr load of Blue Dot.

I shot Blue Dot in my 44 mag revolver with a 15gr load under a 240gr cb, which is a magnum load. The recoil was a handful and the muzzle blast was horrendous, so I dropped the idea of Blue Dot for revolver loads. It is a good rifle load though for 1,200 to 1,350 fps for 100yd shooting...................Dan

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RicinYakima posted this 16 March 2007

Well, 44-40, if the load is accurate and you can live with a little unburned powder, just keep using it. It not here are some thoughts:

This case uses large rifle primers, so make sure you use those.

Unburned powder unusually means the pressure is too little, so you can increase it up to 12 grains and still be up to only 12,500 CUP, less than black powder load pressure. Reducing the load will only make it worse.

If you just want mild “cowboy” type loads, change to a faster powder with less deterrent coating, such as Hodgdon's TiteGroup or Universal Clays.

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Ed Harris posted this 16 March 2007

Blue Dot would not be my powder of choice for the .44-40 in revolver loads, although you can use it in heavier charges in your Winchester 92 to get a cleaner burn and higher useful velocity.

Factory .44-40 loads are mild in deference to older blackpowder revolvers and the Winchester 1873 rifle, which is not particularly strong. The Winchester 92 can safely handle higher velocity loads which cannot be used safely in revolvers. Pre-WWII era high velocity loads for the .44-40 developed about 1600 f.p.s. at about 24,000 c.u.p., whereas revolver ammunition at the time was held to 14,000 cup. Today's ammunition is even less than that and causes problems getting good igniition in the large case with a mild powder charge.

If you own no .44-40 revolvers, and there is absolutely NO chance of making a mistake and shooting a hot rifle load in a revolver, then increase the Blue Dot charge. Alliant recommmends 12 grains with a 200-gr. JSP. I would further use a “hot” primer, such as the Winchester WLP. Because this is the recommended load from Alliant, I would not reduce the charge below that. If you still get unburned powder with 12 grs, for RIFLE USE ONLY, you could carefully increase the load and be remain within the pressure design limits of the Winchester 92. Increase the charge no more than necessary to get a clean burn, and not over 15 grains, which “should” be about 16,000 cup.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Lloyd Smale posted this 17 March 2007

Im with the other guys on this. I dont like blue dot much for anything. Its very sensitive to pressure spikes when you approach top end loads and some 4440s dont handle pressure that well anyway. As far as unburned powder left in a gun what it is most of the time is the filler they use in powders. Gunpowder isnt all gunpowder they use fillers. The dot powder all have colared fillers in them to identitfy them. I dont worry about unburned residue in guns. Some of my most accurate handgun loads are with h4227 and its notorious for leaving residue. Ive never seen where it hurt a thing. If it really conserns you and you want a cleaner burning powder try universal clays or power pistol.

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lankenman posted this 17 March 2007

44-40,

The only primer that is normally used for 44-40 loads is a large pistol primer.  If you decide to go with the hotter large pistol magnum primer, be sure to start again with a reduced load and work your way up.  

You cannot use a large rifle primer unless you deepen the primer pockets using a "primer pocket uniformer".   Both small pistol and small rifle primers will fit interchangably in .38 Special and .357 Mag. brass but this is not true of .44-40 (nor .44 Mag.) brass unless the primer pocket is deepened to take the “taller” large rifle primer.

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CB posted this 17 March 2007

This post was in two locations, so I am going to delete the other that is in General Discussion and move this one to reloading cookbook since it is the most updated post.

Jeff Admin

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drinks posted this 18 March 2007

You should use the primer that is correct for your cases, some cases are sized for large rifle and some for large pistol, large rifle primers are .010” taller than large pistol and could cause slamfires if used in a case needing large pistol pimers, likewise, using large pistol primers could result in misfires if the firing pin does not reach the extra .010” with enough force to ignite the primer. I have been reloading the .44-40 , in both balloon head and solid head cases since the early '60's, I have loaded 200gr to 310gr cast bullets using Herco, IMR4227, H110, WC820 and Rel7. I like 9grof Herco to duplicate the 1200fps actory load, shoots clean and no head expansion noted. My top loa, in my 1919 '92, is 20gr pb . IMR 4227, 26gr, 1670fps. 20gr of H110 with a 310gr RFGC gives 1375fps, this should stop any animal in N.A, and most Africa as well. I very carefully checked the cases before and after shooting all loads, I never had more than .002” case expansion at the head/ body joint. All these are for Win. '92's or new made repros, do not use in pistols or black powder arms made before 1895.

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Savvy Jack posted this 24 March 2009

Drinks,

I am looking for a good defense load for my Uberti SAA Clones. I have tried my best to get the CUP max for this actual revolver but have failed. There is no way that 13,000 is the max if the 38-40 and the 45 Colt offered in the same revolver back in the day show over 13,000 as the max in Lymans reloading manual. I have no idea which firearm SAAMI has as the weakest for the 44-40 but certainly it can't be the SAA. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I want to load up some Speer JHP and want to get a muzzle energy of at least 400 ft/lbs. Rather get 500 if at all possible.

So far my SAAMI relaods (200 gr LFRN) I can only get 378 ft/lbs using Pyrodex-P.  Unique (8.6gr) should give me 483 ft/lbs but I have only tried 8.1 gr @ 284 ft/lbs.

Using Lymans, the best ft/lbs load for the Speer JHP is N340 but only produces 397 ft/lbs of energy @12,600 CUP

I would also like to load up some High Velocity (not JHP) loads for hunting with my Marlin Cowboy.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

drinks wrote: I have been reloading the .44-40 , in both balloon head and solid head cases since the early '60's,

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Ed Harris posted this 25 March 2009

In a modern revolver you should be able to load to pressures which approximate the .38 Special +P or .32 H&R Magnum, up to around 20,000 psi. The medium velocity load I use in my Ruger .44 Magnum with 240-grain jacketed bullets is 8 grains of Bullseye which gives 1040 f.p.s. from a 5-1/2” revolver. I have no pressure data for this load, but it is well below maximum for the .44 Magnum. The .44-40 case has slightly larger powder capacity, so this charge should be safe in a modern revolver. If you use a lighter 200 grain bullet you could increase the charge 1 grain, but no more, because .44-40 brass is still fairly thin and more fragile than .44 Magnum brass. This load is very accurate and burns whistle clean in my Ruger revolvers. Recoil is similar to the .45 Colt and it is pleasant to shoot.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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