Savage Action and Headspace

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  • Last Post 13 July 2012
mrbill2 posted this 07 July 2012

I know how to figure out the headspace when chambering for a action with a shoulder that the barrel comes against. The distance between there and the distance to the bolt face is the headspace measurment. Now with the Savage action with no shoulder for the barrel stop, where do I get the measurement I need for headspace. Looking to chamber for 7.62x 39.

Thanks

mrbill2

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Wayne S posted this 07 July 2012

 The best place I've found info on Savages is http:/.accurateshooter.com/  There is a lot of good info , like how to make your NO-GO & GO gauges out of two FL sized cases and scotch tape

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CB posted this 07 July 2012

I've always bought the necessary gauges to do mine.

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mrbill2 posted this 07 July 2012

(I've always bought the necessary gauges to do mine.)

I'm talking about chambering the barrel on the lathe. You need to know when to stop cutting with the chamber reamer. I need to know how to determine the proper distance from the rear of the barrel to the end of the gage using a Savage action

mrbill2

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pat i. posted this 07 July 2012

That's a good question and I never really thought about it. When I've fit barrels to my own Savage actions I just fit them conventionally using a shoulder and a good recoil lug. With the barrel nut it seems that if you measured from the front of the bolt to the bolt face and added .005 for clearance between the front of the bolt and the back of the barrel that would work wouldn't it. After running your reamer in to get that measurement using a go guage run the barrel in with the go guage in it until it contacts the bolt face and tighten up the nut. 

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TomG posted this 07 July 2012

Whoe guys.

As the moderator of this forum, I think I need to interject with some advice.

First of all, Using sized or fired brass cases is not a safe or good way to set or check headspace on any gun. The CBA does not condone this practice.

Brass cases are too soft and the camming action of the bolt is very strong. Thus, you cannot reliably tell if the bolt is “just touching” the headspace gage. Buy a hardened and ground hs gage and do it right. They are not expensive an are ground to very tight tolerances. Headspace is a dimension on a chamber print (not a cartridge print) and is a nominal value usually plus or minus .004".

I just finished chambering a 22-243 barrel for a prairie dog gun and did away with the barrel nut. I just made a shoulder on the barrel stub to stop it at the correct distance from the bolt face and used a proper headspace gage to set the headspace exactly to where the gage can be felt slightly as the bolt is lowered gently. In other words, just as the bolt handle stub touches the side rail of the action as it locks into battery, I can feel the slightest resistance. That feeling is when the headspace is maybe .001 shorter than the nominal value of a go headspace gage. You have to develop a feel for it that cannot be felt with a cartridge case. If I want to check it another way, I simply put a small piece of clear tape on the back of the go hs gage that is one and a half or two thousanths of an inch thick and I have a no go gage. Just remember to take the tape back off. I use this method and it works for me. I would advise anyone else to buy a “no go ” gage if you haven't developed a feel for this.

I usually set the barrel stub length to clear the bolt nose by .010” and that has always worked for me. The more clearance you have, the more of the case sticks out of the chamber unsupported. If you get it too tight, it will definitely hurt accuracy and debris can cause problems closing the bolt. Check the clearance of the factory setting by closing the bolt on a piece of lead shot and then measuring it after it squashes down to the clearance. Make sure you lube the lugs so you don't gall them.

Using the barrel nut system, simply use a hardened HS gage and turn the barrel down till you “just feel” the gage and then tighten the nut. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it just right as it's difficult to hold the barrel from turning toward or from the action while the nut comes tight. This system is really quite ingenious as it is quick to do in the factory and actually pre-loads the barrel threads up in the direction of the force when the gun is fired.

In summary, do it right and be safe and accurate. If you don't completely understand what you are doing, take it to a professional. Check the chamber for debris every time you use the gage. Look in there with a good light every time. I've seen guns blow cases that were headspaced by somebody who didn't know what he was doing or was not super careful.  Remember, you are placing your head inches away from a tube with 50,000 PSI in it!!!!!

Tom Gray

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mrbill2 posted this 07 July 2012

Ok add .005 the the boltface depth and use that to get the chamber depth measurement (headspace). The barrel isn't large enough to do away with the barrel nut. I do intend to buy gages when I find somewhere that sell them 7.62x39. Thanks for all the help.

mrbill2

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pat i. posted this 07 July 2012

Midway, Brownells, PTG, Mansons, the list goes on but renting or borrowing makes more sense for a single chambering job.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 07 July 2012

me being a simple farm boy, i like to simplify everything down to my level.

HEADSPACE is just that ...the space distance from the front of the locked bolt ....to the head of the chambered case.

in a safe assembly this will be in the order of 0.005 to 0.000 inch.  as per tom gray, i like to fit rifles that will be kept clean ...to a smaller space...

the gauges have caused confusion...but simplified, they are just a precision imitation case to standard measurements.

the trouble/danger of using a factory case ....is that there is too much tolerance....and geepers you might even pickup a fired case,....which might have stretched 0.010 in a bad sloppy chamber....so if you ream a new chamber to fit this long case ......you have just copied that dangerous chamber.

a special thought about rimmed cases...they are not quite so simple, either, as the rim thickness can vary according to make...lot number....etc.  so again use a precision gauge, not an indian war 45-70 corroded old collector case.     some further trivia re: rimmed cases ....your supply of brass might not be exactly the rim thickness of the precision gauge ....hmmm....    another thread material here...but think before you trim....

hope this helps ....ken

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CB posted this 08 July 2012

mrbill2 wrote: (I've always bought the necessary gauges to do mine.)

I'm talking about chambering the barrel on the lathe. You need to know when to stop cutting with the chamber reamer. I need to know how to determine the proper distance from the rear of the barrel to the end of the gage using a Savage action My last custom barrel was a 30-06, replacing a factory 30-06 barrel, of all things. We dropped the “GO” gauge in the factory chamber, and measured the step from the barrel end, to the end of the gauge. On the new barrel, we cut the chamber until we were about .010 shy of that measurement, and stopped. Later, when we started preliminary assembly, we finished cutting the chamber after a few trial fits to make certain we got exactly what we wanted. I think we actually went a little deeper, but it didn't make a difference, since we were reusing the barrel nut system anyway. Everything worked perfectly, and we had no issues at all.

Then I sold the rifle. I gotta quit doing that.

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raytear posted this 08 July 2012

If you are wanting to rent reamers and gauges the outfit is called, oddly enough, Reamer Rentals.  Do a Yahoo and you can get their web address.

Good shooting! RT

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pat i. posted this 09 July 2012

Bill just out of curiosity what kind of barrel are you using and why the 7.62x39 over something like the 30BR?

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mrbill2 posted this 09 July 2012

Pat

At the moment I haven't bought any barrel. This is just one of those ideas I get from time to time. I have been trying to shoot benchrest for about 3 years now, production class mostly. For what ever reason I shot better the first time out than I have for the last two years. It's been like a dog chasing it tail. I have more damn bullet molds than brains. You know, this is the one bullet that's going to win the match.Then I get to thinking. Maybe a better gun is the answer. Although I know it isn't. It's old age and the wind that are the problem, plus I'm too darn cheap. As for the choise of 7.62x39 I was thinking a small case for better ignition less recoil. Never thought about the 30 BR. So many things to do and so little time.

mrbill2

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pat i. posted this 09 July 2012

Have you ever thought about throating and making a taper die for the barrel you're shooting now? Usually helps quite a bit.

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joeb33050 posted this 10 July 2012

The dimension from the breech end of the barrel to the end of either a GO gauge or a fired FL sized case is .125". If you are within a few thousandths, you'll be fine installing the barrel. I've installed dozens of Savage barrels using a set of fired FL cases and Scotch tape, with no problem. Many other shooters have had the same experience. Anyone who objects to the Scotch tape method hasn't thought the matter through. joe b.

mrbill2 wrote: I know how to figure out the headspace when chambering for a action with a shoulder that the barrel comes against. The distance between there and the distance to the bolt face is the headspace measurment. Now with the Savage action with no shoulder for the barrel stop, where do I get the measurement I need for headspace. Looking to chamber for 7.62x 39.

Thanks

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joeb33050 posted this 13 July 2012

For more see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/savage110group/files/ where the articles starting with 4 are pertinent. This is under construction. joe b.

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