What size /type moulds for 45-70

  • 5.3K Views
  • Last Post 02 September 2012
kevo posted this 11 August 2012

Hi there,new to this forum and also new to moulding projectiles. (I did some casting of 50 cal round balls and mini slugs some 30 yrs ago, but I need to upskill quickly) Would really appreciate your suggestions on size/make/type of mould to form bullets (or should I be saying 'boolits') for a 45-70 govt calibre Chiappa Sharps Quigley. I am thinking of shooting 300 and 400 gr pills for target and deer sized game. I am hoping to only have to buy a couple of moulds to achieve this, or am I Dreamin'?? Cheers, Kevo

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
onondaga posted this 11 August 2012

The RanchDog TLC-460-350-RF is my favorite bullet in 45 cal. This mold drops at .461” for me with #2 alloy and is plenty big to be sized/checked for any 45-70 rifle. I use them for bear/deer. Link:

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5_14&products_id=29>http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?mainpage=productinfo&cPath=1514&productsid=29

Attached Files

Michael K posted this 11 August 2012

G'day Kevo.

Welcome mate. Where is Westbury? I feel that I should know, but it just isn't coming to mind tonight.

A 400gr flat nose such as Lyman's 457193 is hard to beat. Both RCBS, Lee, Saeco, and Ranch Dog each offer their own variant of the design. Lee has a hollow base version as well. A round nose will flatten out the trajectory a bit although at 45-70 vels and resonable hunting distances I wouldn't worry about it. A flat nose will provide better energy transfer and expansion especially with softer alloys than a roundnose will, but you already know that. If your velocities are less than 1400fps you can give a gas check design a miss. Availability and/or cost may be a factor in which one you end up going with. May want to slug your barrel before making your final selection, the last thing you want to deal with on your side of the big pond is the hassle and cost of a replacement if the bullet smaller than your bore dia.

All the best, Michael.

Attached Files

kevo posted this 11 August 2012

Thanks for the info Gary and Michael.Much to look at and work out. Michael, you mention that I might want to slug my barrel before choosing a mould. Can you explain this process please, as I'm not sure as to how to go about doing it. Cheers, Kevo.

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 11 August 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6658>kevo: There are lots of videos about “slugging a bore". For a 45 cal. rifle I use a pure soft lead 50 cal. round ball. The barrel should be very clean and heavily greased and the ball greased also. You need a good micrometer to measure the ball afterward also. Your bullet size for your rifle should be selected to be .002- .004” larger than the Groove to groove diameter indicated on the slug you pushed through your bore.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=vid&hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=slugging+a+bore&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=2>https://www.google.com/search?tbm=vid&hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=slugging+a+bore&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=2 Don't just watch one video!! Some of the videos are hilariously stupid and wrong but will give you an idea of what should be going on.

 The only things I use for slugging a 45 cal. rifle  are a pure soft lead 50 cal. round ball,  grease, patches for greasing the bore, a leather mallet to start the ball and pound it flush in the muzzle , a muzzle loading ball starter to pound the ball down the bore a few inches and a solid fiberglass 45 cal. cleaning rod to push the ball through and out of the chamber to be measured with a micrometer..

Do be aware that many morons have gotten a ball that is too hard and not pure soft  lead stuck in a bore that is rough, dirty, and not heavily greased. These same morons also break wooden dowels and wedge them in the bore with the ball requiring serious gunsmith work. Be smart!!! Think this through before attempting to do it and use the right stuff.

You can see by my picture that it does take some pounding to get a 50 cal. ball started and flush at the muzzle and some pounding will also be needed to get the muzzle loading ball starter to get the ball down the bore a few inches. It is usually pretty easy after that. Only pure soft lead balls work correctly with a lot of grease in the clean bore.

Gary

Attached Files

Michael K posted this 12 August 2012

Hi Kevo,

Ditto on the videos. My process is similar, find a pure lead round ball that is larger than the bore. The bigger the slug is to start with, the more force it will take to swag it down as it enters the bore. But you will want enough surface area of the RB in contact with the bore to allow a reliable measurement.

Put a coat of oil in the bore, and on the RB. I start from the breech, but that's me. As far a rods go, you will want something that is strong enough to withstand being hammered while it swages down the RB and then pushes it down the barrel, yet soft enough that there is nil chance of marring up the bore. I have even used coated Dewey .30cal cleaning rod with the thread adapter screwed off. Place an empty brass .40 S&W case over the end to keep the rod fairly centered in the bore and on the top of the RB to avoid having the rod slip over the side of the RB and wedge itself between the RB and the bore.

There a number of different methods ranging from great to terrible, along with an equal number of opinions. Do your research and proceede from there. Good luck.

I found Westbury, I been have down to Launceston, then over to Bridport and Scotsdale several years ago. That reminds me of a good Yabbie story.

All best, Michael.

Attached Files

6pt-sika posted this 13 August 2012

I only have a single 45-70 lever gun at the moment but I use the following in the gun ,

 

Ranch Dog 460-300GC

Ranch Dog 460-350GC

Ranch Dog 460-425GC

BRP 462-465GC

BallistiCast 462-550GC

Also have the Lyman 330 grain Gould HP mold but don't use it as much anymore just because I prefer a gascheck mold .

 

With just about all the GC molds I use H322 and ALL are sized in a Buffalo Arms custom .461” sizing die and lubed with Thompson's Blue Angel . And to date they've all worked well enough for hunting purposes .

With the Lyman Gould bullet I use the same die and lube but tend to push that one with SR4759 or XMP5744 . Killed a rather large bodied 6 point whitetail a few years back with this bullet and 31.5 grains of SR4759 . Shot it out of a Marlin 1895CB with tang sights . Needless to say a the shot the deer was DRT .>

Attached Files

6pt-sika posted this 13 August 2012

I've watched folks slug the bore before using the egg shaped sinkers that are a shade over what you assume the bore diameter to be . And after they oil or lube the bore very well they use a long piece of wooden dowel rod as close to the bore diameter as possible .

 

The egg shaped sinkers work a shade easier because they have the hole in the center therefore can swage inside a little easier .

 

Personally I don't slug my bore's but rather run the bullet thru the .461" die and shoot it . So far I've had very decent luck . Same for the 44 MAG / 444 , just run them thru a .432” pr .433” die and go on with it !

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 13 August 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6658>kevo: the Quigley is a beautiful rifle. You should expect the chamber and bore to be cut to standards but the slugging is just a check to be certain and help with bullet size and bullet sizing die selection. .460 will likely be fine but it is also very possible that .461 or even .462 will be excellent.

The bullet that is the largest diameter that will seat in un-sized brass and chamber is very generally the best with accuracy.

I have shot hundreds of pounds of bullets in my .458 Win Mag and am helping my grandson get started in 45-70. Both cases are nearly straight walled so the full length sizing die can be adjusted to less than full length sizing. I point this out because less than full length sizing is beneficial to aid in not re-sizing the bullets when seating them into your brass. Partially full length sizing also greatly extends case life because the brass is worked less.

We have our brass sizing dies backed off to  accommodate our bullet size with light tension and easy bullet seating. We both use the  Lee Factory Crimp die to return the flared case mouth back to neutral. Your rifle is a single shot so a crimp is not needed  but returning the case mouth to neutral is good if you flare case mouths before seating bullets. My rifle is magazine fed so I crimp some.

Some 45-70 shooters adjust their brass sizing die just right so that case mouth flair is not needed for bullet seating and only chamfer/de-burr their brass and have no bullet  seating problems crumpling brass. It is a very fine die adjustment to achieve but works excellently if you can get there.

Many 45-70 shooters favor fast powders and light loads. This works, but I prefer  powders that give the bullet a softer start and have a flatter pressure curve relative to barrel length. This equals accuracy for me. I generally use H4895 . Low volumes of H4895 will leave a trail of unburned powder kernels down the bore. I eliminate that with a Ballistic filler and use BPI Origina ballistic filler for 106% mildly compressed loads. This gives me very complete burn and consistent accuracy. Something to consider. Link:

 http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695248/bpi-shot-buffer-original-500cc-approximately-1-2-lb>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695248/bpi-shot-buffer-original-500cc-approximately-1-2-lb

This particular filler is also very useful when shooting plain based bullets, It acts as a quasi gas check to seal pressure and protect the bullet base so it extends the pressure/velocity range for plain base bullets in addition to providing for complete burn of powder and great ignition consistency with plain base or gas checked bullets.

The weight of the filler used is added to the weight of the bullet for velocity and pressure safety calculations. The stuff is shot with the bullet so it is part of the total projectile weight.

Gary

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 13 August 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6658>kevo:

Before I decided on the RanchDog 350 gr. bullet, I tried others that worked very well:

 I decided against the 405 gr. as recoil was abusive at hunting velocities but accuracy was fine. I decided against the 340 grain because it cast light at 329 grains in #2 alloy and the Flat Nose is much smaller than the massive Flat Nose on the RanchDog 350 gr. bullet that I plan to stay with for Black Bear and Whitetail Deer. My granndson likes the Lee 405 gr. , the recoil makes him feel very manly, But after 20 shots he wants his Mama.

The Lee 340 gr and 405 gr are 2 cavity molds. The RanchDog 350 gr is a 6 cavity mold. Although I am a retired casting analyst and have cast for many decades, the RanchDog was my first 6 cavity mold and there was a notable learning curve for me to get acquainted and comfortable with it!!!

The plain base Checks are from a member here. They are actually 50 cal. checks made from .008 aluminum and I run them on the bullets base first through a push through Lee bullet sizing die. They work, but he may have a better fit 45 cal plain base gas check by now, these were experimental and he asked me to test them. Link to his site: http://sagesoutdoors.com/index.htm>http://sagesoutdoors.com/index.htm

Adding gas checks to a plain base bullet is a great new option for big bore shooters.

Gary

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 15 August 2012

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6658>kevo:

The standard cast bullet sizing dies for 45-70 do not fill the bill for me. They are usually .458” and don't get near optimum for best accuracy. I honed the .458 out to .460 by hand before I realized that RanchDog offers a custom cut .460” Lee Lube-N Size Kit. These kits are used with your reloading press and include the push through bullet sizing die that sizes bullets and seats gas checks in one stroke of the press. The kit also includes Lee Liquid Alox tumble lube bullet lubricant that is adequate and works well. Here is a link to purchase the custom .460 Lee Lube-N-size kit from RanchDog:

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_34&products_id=67>http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.php?mainpage=productinfo&cPath=234&productsid=67 Hopefully you can get your bullet mold and custom size Lube-N-Size kit in one order from RanchDog shortly.

I do mix a custom tumble lubricant called 45:45:10 Recluse for all my tumble lubing of cast bullets. It is clearer in color, non tacky, and dries in 10 minutes if you warm the bullets and lube. I find it to be a great improvement over the standard Lee Liquid Alox and use it exclusively. Here is a post on this Forum giving great details on mixing and using 45:45:10 Recluse:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_topic.php?id=8683&forum_id=16>http://www.castbulletassoc.org/viewtopic.php?id=8683&forumid=16

I hope to see you get your Quigley and post pictures and targets very soon. The RanchDog stuff should get you started shooting well and in short order.

I use a few brands of Gas checks including the Hornady 45 Cal. Gas Checks #7140 recommended by RanchDog and also aluminum gas checks from a member here. They all work fine with the RanchDog Bullets.

Gary

Attached Files

StrawHat posted this 02 September 2012

kevo wrote: ...Would really appreciate your suggestions on size/make/type of mould to form bullets (or should I be saying 'boolits') for a 45-70 govt calibre Chiappa Sharps Quigley. I am thinking of shooting 300 and 400 gr pills for target and deer sized game. I am hoping to only have to buy a couple of moulds to achieve this, or am I Dreamin'?? Cheers, Kevo...

You might be dreaming. If you get bitten by the casting bug, you could end up with many molds and even dream of having custom molds made.

For the 45-70 I have maybe a dozen moulds. Many I bought because I thought they “sounded aboiut right"for what I wanted. Of the dozen moulds, I use several a lot more than the others. I shoot blackpowder so no longer need the gas chaecks. I hunt more than I target so lighter is better. THe Gould bullet, Lyman 257122, is my hunting bullet of choice in my rolling block and my Springfield Single Shot Rifle. On occassion, I use the 330 grain bullet from the Lee mold. Rarely do I use 400 or heavier bullets. I am not trying for long range anymore. SOme folks have had problems with Lee molds, they work fine for me.

I see you are from Australia, what molds are common to you there?

Attached Files

Close