"shot out" barrel (?) on Enfield #4

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  • Last Post 31 January 2013
Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 30 January 2013

I have two #4's one I used cerrosafe last night, one has .315 and the other .316, on Milsurps I read that anything over .315 is shot out, when I do the quick and dirty test with a .303 fmj round in the .315 it has about 1/8 inch showing at the muzzle and the other just makes it to the mouth of the case. The cerrosafe showed rifling on both barrels, in fact looking in the bore the .315 looks pretty good.

The question is, with FMJ and mil surplus ammo I could see the .316 being shot out as it might not grab the rifling, but with cast lead wheelweights, couldn't I try to cast some that would fill the grooves?

I saw Penn Bullets will sell some that are .313

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 30 January 2013

Just got a reply on the castboolits forum and a guy suggested a 8mm .323 bullet, he sized them to .314 using a Lee sizer but I know that Lee will custom make any size sizer you want for $25 so I will get one made for .316 and try the 8mm mold That may do it.

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tturner53 posted this 30 January 2013

They may not not be shot out. The large dimensions are common and were made that way. War time tolerances, I guess. First, see how they shoot. Molds are available just for these sloppy .303s, starting with a $20 mold from Lee, CTL 312-160. I casted up a bunch the other day and they are more like .314 with a .307 nose. Many mold options out there, for under a hundred bucks, that drop any size you need. I'm using a NOE 316299 for my Savage #4s. .313 is not going to cut it except for very light loads. I can push the NOEs to 2,000 fps with accuracy equal to military ball ammo or better. If you want to try some of my bullets pm me, I'll make you a good deal. Also, read up on fireforming your .303 brass. Case life will much improved. (The Lee CTL 312-160s actually are about 175 gr. ready to load)

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grouch posted this 30 January 2013

My old 311299 mold casts .316, as do some of CBE's 303 molds. Failing those, LBT will make you a mold any size you want.

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Ed Harris posted this 30 January 2013

Go with the CBE or LBT mold and be happy. Lee can custom made push-through sizer in .315-.316 for you.

If the chamber neck diameter is large enough for safe clearance, .344” or larger, (which any mil chambers are) you can load .320” diameter .32-40 or Winchester Special jacketed bullets for hunting purposes with starting level loads, about 30 grs. of RL-7 approximates .32 Win. Special ballistics. In sloppy wartime chambers these often shoot VERY well. Frank Marshall was a fan of this. You may have to neck turn cases.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 30 January 2013

grouch, not to seem dumb but...

what is CBE and LBT ?

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Ed Harris posted this 30 January 2013

http://lbtmoulds.com/

www.castbulletengineering.com/page0031.html

.303 BRITISH --This cartridge is ideally suited to cast bullet use. Excellent accuracy equal or better than Jacketed Bullet performance can be obtained from standard barrels and the 2 groove war production barrels.

It is not uncommon to find significant wear in some of the old Lee Enfield SMLE rifle barrels and this should be taken into consideration when choosing the cast bullet design and diameter you will use. We recommend sizing to .313” minimum with .314” often a better choice.

Bore sizes are generally consistent at .303” while groove diameters we have measured range from .312” up to .314” in standard barrels. The 2 groove barrels we have measured again are consistent at .303” bore size but even new barrels can be as large as .318” in the grooves. This is one instance where an undersize bullet can still perform as the wide lands in 2 groove barrels displace a large amount of the driving bands and this displaced alloy tends to fill the oversize grooves.

Our bore riding nose type designs feature nominal .303” nose diameters. Some of our later designs have slightly larger nose diameters from .304” to .305". Illustrations available.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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JeffinNZ posted this 31 January 2013

I bet you have two groove barrels. If so I defy you to find a 2 groove .303 that is tighter than .316 in the groove. They ain't shot out. They were cut fat to reduce the pressure of a lot less groove and a lot more land when barrels went from 5 down to 2 grooves for ease of manufacture. With the right bullet they shoot fine.

This 3 shot group was ex my .303 Pygmy (.303 x 1.5 inch) at 50m using the bullet Ed shows above. My groove is .317 inch.

Cheers from New Zealand

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Ed Harris posted this 31 January 2013

Plainbased version of the same bullet weighs 225 grains and is deadly accurate in my Krag sporter with 12 grs. of #2400.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ben Cartwright SASS posted this 31 January 2013

This is why I like this forum, lots of info.

One #4 is 2 groove and one if 5 groove the 2 groove is 316/317

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Ed Harris posted this 31 January 2013

CBE 240-gr. GCFN of wheelweights as shown above, .315 sizer for both rifles, 24-30 grs. of 4064, Varget or RL-15 is a winner.

For heavier load same range of RL-7 is OK or up to 36 grains of Varget, 4064, RL-15 etc. are “full charge” loads around 2000 fps. Perforate deer from end to end, or OK for raking shots at any angle or range you can hit them.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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