LR Silhouette and Cast

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  • Last Post 01 March 2015
Wineman posted this 11 February 2013

TTurner53 and I are going to go cast in a silhouette match on Saturday. The loads are similar: 43 ish grains (3.1 cc dipper) of IMR 4350, a kapok filler and either a 314284 or 314299 heat treated WW @ 0.314". Last time I used a M1903A3 and ran out of sight at 500 M. I thought 800 would be enough for 500 M but I was way low. This time I am using my M1917 Eddystone with the original 5 groove. If I remember the twist is left hand. The loads are running 2,100 fps and my thinking is I will need a bit of Kentucky windage to the right. I do not want to move the front sight. We get some sighters at each range so my thought is to start at 300 over the range (ie 500 yd at 200 meters) and walk them in. It should be a fun day. If anyone has any thoughts I am all ears.

Dave

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onondaga posted this 11 February 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=893>Wineman:

I' love that, wish my club had that. Only one club in my area has silhouette, to 100 yards only. Occasionally I compete there as a guest and shoot my AR with cast.

Gary

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6pt-sika posted this 11 February 2013

I did John Kort's LeverAction Jubilee shoot at Ridgeway PA a few years back !

That was a hoot shooting at 200 , 300 , 385 and 500 meters with peep sighted leveractions and kinda slow cast bullets !

We used a different rifle for each yardage and shot from the sitting position . I can't say I hit them all at 500 meters but I did knock down a few .

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Wineman posted this 11 February 2013

I am very lucky. It may be TRC (the republic of CA) but I get a full Silhouette range and a 1,000 yard range all 30 min from my house. It is a nice place too. The Silhouette is set up “Fowl Line” (Chickens and Turkeys) and the Euro Debt Crisis (Pigs and Rams) side. We shoot four times, and reset three times, then switch sides and do the fourth reset. We then do the same for the other side. The last round does not have to reset. If there is a tie, we shoot off what ever is still standing until someone misses. The initial spot is by poker chips in a bag: you reach in and pull one out and that is your start spot. There are five banks so we can do 40 shooters. It has been pretty busy lately even in the cold winter months. Alright cold here is pretty mild but it is what you are used to. After the military shoot, we have the range for the rest of the day and you can shoot and reset at your leisure.

Dave

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4060may posted this 11 February 2013

I have shot Cast bullet Silhouette at Ridgway since 1990

your load of 4350 is 2 gr more than i use in the 30-40 Krag No.3 Ruger, scoped

using the 314299 sized .311, LBT Blue lube

for the Chickens, Pigs and Turkeys, I have been using Unique and RCBS 180SP

in my 1895 Win 30-40 lever I use Reloader 7 and RCBS 180SP, for Pigs, Iron sights

all are water quenched, BHN is 18-19

my friend was using a 8mm Persian Mauser with SR4759, 18grs, went to the Rams

not enough to knock them over, he hit 12 of 15, 3 went down..kind of frustrating

if you are shooting NRA rules..you have to shoot out of the magazine, if so equipped

this depends on the range offer of course..

have fun it's a hoot

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Wineman posted this 11 February 2013

It is military rifles in stock military trim, shot prone with a sandbag type rest. We have begun to branch out and allow ex military sporters as a class, and military with target sights. We have also let people shoot off of the bench for physical issues but that is a separate class too. Iron sights and scopes are also classed along with handicaps (B, A, AA, AAA, Master). The Swede 6.5 guys usually take the cake, but K31's and 1903A3's can also take top prize money. M1A and AR's are open class regardless of sights.

http://www.sacvalley.org/clubs/militaryriflesilhouette.html

Dave

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delmarskid1 posted this 12 February 2013

That sounds like a real good time. I've often wondered what the max range of cast bullets could be.

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Wineman posted this 12 February 2013

As far as I know, we are the only cast shooters in the Military sil. Everyone else (and usually me) uses jacketed. It is just so much easier (relatively speaking). There is a Black Powder group that uses the same range. Sometimes when resetting the Rams, I find 400+ grain bullets on the ground. It is fun though. I do not think there is a limit to the range, just how much sight adjustment you have. Obviously, faster is flatter but brew your own has its own appeal. Even a middling load should be able to cover 550 yards.

Dave

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PETE posted this 12 February 2013

A friend of mine shoots BP cartridge at 1000 yds. at several matches a year.

Pete

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tturner53 posted this 17 February 2013

We shot the milsil with our cast bullets, mostly 311299s oven heat treated. Between us we got 15 out of 80! Gotta start somewhere. We're maybe going to go scoped next time. Dave has a Swiss contraption rifle and I have a beautiful 03a4 fake that both have scopes. The one ram I hit at 500m did fall using my Chilean rebarreled 7.62 Nato 1912 Steyr with open sights. After that run it was mostly miss, some hit. The quest continues. I like silhouette matches and don't like paying for jacketed bullets, especially now. My load for the 7.62x51 was 42 gr. of IMR 4350 and 1/2 gr. dacron. Ran pretty clean. I may try a COW load and see if I can boost the velocity a tad.

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Wineman posted this 17 February 2013

Well as they say a bad day at the range (golf, softball, whatever) is better than a good day at work, although after Saturday work sounds better. I used my M1917 and was never able to get a good sight picture until the last stage which was Turkeys. I had tried several combinations of glasses, peephole lens devices and finally settled on my Varilux normal glasses. These are not supposed to work well, but time and time again I have found them to work better than fixed power lenses and things like the Merit, or Eyepal.

An overlarge peep sight, and, unusually for a M1917, a trigger from hell did not help matters. The price of admission to 2,000+ fps cast is pretty steep and I will say that my preparation was not what it takes to score well. That said, there were plenty of iron sight rifles with jacketed that only managed 10-15 hits.

At the end of the match there was a shoot off for the scoped rifles class. Two guys kept knocking Turkeys over until after 15 shots each, the match director said “Chickens offhand". Six shots later we had a tie breaker.

More work to do for sure.

Dave

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jhalcott posted this 18 February 2013

Delmar look up the Buffington sight on the 45-70 trapdoor. They claim Buffington was getting under 2 MOA even out beyond 1 MILE! I was NOT there so I don't know the truth of it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html>http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html

Here is a sampling!

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RicinYakima posted this 19 February 2013

Yep, a mean radius of 16 inches would be groups about 32” average. About 25% chance of hitting a standing soldier with the rifle, wish I could hold that good! Ric

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Mike H posted this 19 February 2013

jhalcott wrote: Delmar look up the Buffington sight on the 45-70 trapdoor. They claim Buffington was getting under 2 MOA even out beyond 1 MILE! I was NOT there so I don't know the truth of it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html>http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html

Here is a sampling! Thanks for posting the link,I found it extremely interesting,they must have had mild conditions to have even got near the target. Mike.

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Wayne S posted this 20 February 2013

Since you asked for thoughts, I'd suggest  buying the Lee 230 gn mold. or asking to buy 100+ as cast 311365 or the NOE 311-247, both have higher BC's than the 311284 or 314299. I say as cast so if you feel the need you can heat treat them if you feel their BHN isn't high enough.

Just a thought.

Wayne

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delmarskid1 posted this 20 February 2013

I have several friends who do the 1000 yd. stuff with BPCR's. I haven't gotten motivated to try it yet. After reading a bit of the Buffington sight link I had to grin and think about it a little. Thanks for the link. I have a .375 whelen that I'm pretty sure would knock down something.

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Wineman posted this 23 February 2013

Had a chance to shoot the loads in the M1917 prone with a canvas sling at 200 yards. I had 26 rounds left over and put them down range fairly quickly. Not rapid fire maybe one round every 15 seconds fed from the magazine with a five minute pause between magazines. Out of the 26, I had 21 on the paper of a SR5 target, three in the black, a couple off paper on the left. With my M1 Garand and M2 Ball, I usually stay in the mid 90's in a CMP match. Upon cleaning there was leading about four inches from the muzzle. I need to do more load work up prior to hitting the Silhouettes, maybe something a bit slower?

Dave

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 23 February 2013

very interesting when a barrel leads in the last half of the barrel. ” common sense ” tells us the bullet is running out of lube ...however, i think that maybe there is a ” loose spot ” in the barrel ..... hand lapping, which i prefer if you have an hour ...and patience ... can detect ...


i often find loose( er ) spots in even match quality barrels when i hand lap ...which is why i prefer that method over just polishing the highs and lows of the barrel . one big name select match barrel was so extra large for a few inches ... that with hot mj bullets it would leave a varnish and kill accuracy ... even hand lapping couldn't correct it ..( the barrel mfg. promptly replaced it ... one reason to support the good guys ) .

just some trivia ... ken

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onondaga posted this 23 February 2013

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=893>Wineman:

"maybe something a bit slower?"

 Yes, your rate of fire. High rate of fire as you have done takes extra steps to get a rifle to shoot clean with cast. I can fire my AR15, 3 thirty round magazines in a row with a trigger activator that fires faster than issue full auto with cast bullets. This does not come easy. You have to maximize every factor of cast bullet successful shooting to achieve this, bullet fit, barrel condition and alloy, lube is the least of the problems. Your leading near the muzzle suggests bore condition is the problem and the bore is abrading the bullet and lube off before the bullet reaches the muzzle. Try this after your bullet size is the maximum that will chamber in your rifle:

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_topic.php?id=8364&forum_id=63>http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8364&forumid=63

If you can't fix that stuff up and just like to shoot fast, Clean your rifle more often. You can also enhance the enjoyment of rapid firing with a powder that bangs louder, try a double base powder in the load range you are shooting. It bangs a lot louder.

Gary

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6mmintl posted this 11 February 2014

I believe I am the only cast bullet Mil-Surp rifle shooter now at Sacramento valley shooting center in Ca.

Ive been out there with some recent buys, a 11mm 1873 Dutch Beaumont and this coming month a 1888 Dutch Mannlicher 8x60R, Also playing with a 1890 Dovitus rifle jackedted and cast.

Im trying to get some shooters interested in starting an Pre-1898 cast bullet class.

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2coldhere posted this 14 March 2014

Where I live I can only dream about shooting this time of year. Snow is still 28” deep. Town plow used to go out to 100 yard berm at local range but snow got too deep to throw any higher. First milsurp match is in April. Will need some serious melting.

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Wineman posted this 15 March 2014

Tom is putting in a Cast Match every other month. Maybe more will join in.

Dave

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tturner53 posted this 01 March 2015

The saga continues. In the last match we had four shooters shooting cast bullets. It's a standard NRA type silhouette range. Using my home made A304 and 311299s I managed to run the pigs, 10 down straight at 300m. With a 25 out of 40 it was still not good enough to win or place in our class but was a personal best using cbs in the military rifle silhouette game. It's only a matter of time and I'll be giving it a go with my Trapdoor 45-70. Probably with a smokeless load.

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