Some years back I acquired this .38 mould unused from a gunshop wanting to unload all their casting gear for cheap. It's a SWC design and says 162gr. on the Lyman box.Cast several hundred of these the other day and they drop at .358 and consistently weigh 150gr using 50/50 pure lead and linotype. Some of my other moulds may vary a grain or two or three but not 12??
It's ok, the 150 is a usable bullet for me, just wondering if anyone had any experience with it and why the big variance in weight.
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I have this mould too. Mine casts .360 with WW/lino, and weighs about 160 gr.
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Your alloy of 50% pure and 50% Linotype is an extreme one. Lyman specifies the alloy their molds are to be cast from for the weight to be close to the listed weight.
If you use an alloy with more tin and antimony than the specified alloy, your bullets will be proportionally lighter. Your bullet weight is not in the least surprising at all with the alloy you listed. Your alloy is likely BHN18-20+.
If you cast pure lead into that mold, bullets will be heavier than the specified weight.
I actually question what in the world you would want bullets that hard for. Alloys harder than Lyman #2 at BHN 15 start to get brittle and definitely fragment on contact with game with the percentages of tin and antimony like the 50% lead and 50% Linotype you have.
If you are inexperienced on of how to select an alloy based on the load pressure and use for the bullets, I suggest Lee 2nd Edition Modern Reloading.The book completely explains the relation and is a great help in selecting alloy.
If your loads are for typical SWC target loads for a .38 or .357 Mag your alloy should be about BHN 10, Hot loads for hunting/defense should be about BHN 15 or standard Lyman #2 Alloy (90% lead, 5% tin, 5% Antimony)
Work with what you have and Pure lead : Lino at 8:2 will yield a bullet alloy about BHN 14-15 and cast a lot closer in weight to the 162 gr you expected.
Gary
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I have two 358432 moulds - Lyman and Ideal. Throw at about 160gr.
I prefer the heavier in rifles. (.357, 35Rem et al.)
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Gary, I'm probably gone daffy but my calculations 1 to 1 lead to linotype should yield a 14.7 Brinnell hardness. That's 92% lead, 2% tin, and 6% antimony. Where am I off on this? Thanks Pete
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Basic Rules for Harding Lead- From RotoMetals
For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )
50% pure lead + 50% Linotype
file:///C:/DOCUME~1/GERARD~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.gif
With a 50% Lino + 50% pure your alloy ends up with 2% tin, 6% antimony,92% lead. By the formula from RotoMetals: 8.60 + ( 0.29 x 2) + ( 0.92 x 6 ) = Brinell 8.60 + .58 + 5.52 = 14.7
Pete, You are not daffy, thanks for correcting me. Your math is correct. However, the results I get in practical application are different and the ratios I gave yield the hardness I listed by using the Lee Hardness Test kit, not the math. This is likely so because my Linotype scrap is much harder than standard and my range scrap is harder than pure. My range scrap: Lino @ 8:2 = 14.5 to 15.5 BHN
I also alloy my scrap COWW:Lino at 13:3 and get BHN 14.5 - 15.5
Certified pure and certified Linotype @ 50:50 will = 14.7 BHN
It is not always math, a hardness test kit is a very practical tool for bullet casters that cannot afford or don't have access to certified pure and certified lead alloys.
Gary
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Thanks for the help, Gary. I'll get one of the harness testers. I cast mostly for handguns under 1,000 fps so I probably need to soften up my alloy.
Thanks
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Your alloy of 50% pure and 50% Linotype is an extreme one. Lyman specifies the alloy their molds are to be cast from for the weight to be close to the listed weight.
If you use an alloy with more tin and antimony than the specified alloy, your bullets will be proportionally lighter. Your bullet weight is not in the least surprising at all with the alloy you listed. Your alloy is likely BHN18-20+.
If you cast pure lead into that mold, bullets will be heavier than the specified weight.
I actually question what in the world you would want bullets that hard for. Alloys harder than Lyman #2 at BHN 15 start to get brittle and definitely fragment on contact with game with the percentages of tin and antimony like the 50% lead and 50% Linotype you have.
If you are inexperienced on of how to select an alloy based on the load pressure and use for the bullets, I suggest Lee 2nd Edition Modern Reloading.The book completely explains the relation and is a great help in selecting alloy.
If your loads are for typical SWC target loads for a .38 or .357 Mag your alloy should be about BHN 10, Hot loads for hunting/defense should be about BHN 15 or standard Lyman #2 Alloy (90% lead, 5% tin, 5% Antimony)
Work with what you have and Pure lead : Lino at 8:2 will yield a bullet alloy about BHN 14-15 and cast a lot closer in weight to the 162 gr you expected.
Gary Your alloy of 50% pure and 50% Linotype is an extreme one. Lyman specifies the alloy their molds are to be cast from for the weight to be close to the listed weight.
How do you define extreme, and why do you use the word in this context? This makes no sense to me.
If you use an alloy with more tin and antimony than the specified alloy, your bullets will be proportionally lighter. Your bullet weight is not in the least surprising at all with the alloy you listed. Your alloy is likely BHN18-20+
My bullets are not lighter. They're pretty much on target, Lyman “proofs” this particular mould with linotype. My weights and dimensions are dead on for my purposes.
I actually question what in the world you would want bullets that hard for. Alloys harder than Lyman #2 at BHN 15 start to get brittle and definitely fragment on contact with game with the percentages of tin and antimony like the 50% lead and 50% Linotype you have.
Who are you to question my decisions? I have specific purposes in mind when I develop my data. My alloy decision suits my purposes. My bullets have not proven to be brittle, or I would have adjusted them accordingly. You are not the only person here who can develop a load.
If you are inexperienced on of how to select an alloy based on the load pressure and use for the bullets, I suggest Lee 2nd Edition Modern Reloading.The book completely explains the relation and is a great help in selecting alloy.
If you are inexperienced in the dynamics of interpersonal communication, and how to communicate with people without pissing them off, I can suggest a few books for you too.
If your loads are for typical SWC target loads for a .38 or .357 Mag your alloy should be about BHN 10, Hot loads for hunting/defense should be about BHN 15 or standard Lyman #2 Alloy (90% lead, 5% tin, 5% Antimony)
And if they're not for “typical” uses, what then? Define “typical".You're lecturing me when you don't have any of the facts. You're just spouting numbers from a book. The book doesn't know what, or how I use the bullets either.
Work with what you have and Pure lead : Lino at 8:2 will yield a bullet alloy about BHN 14-15 and cast a lot closer in weight to the 162 gr you expected.
Once again, Lymans data shows this bullet “proofed” at 162 gr with linotype. Do you own any newer Lyman manuals? They can be fascinating reading. They're filled with facts, not innuendo.
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I was responding to post #3 where you lectured me on everything you felt I was doing wrong. As an experienced caster, you surely realize that there is usually more than one way to accomplish your goals, and that neither alloy selection, nor bullet selection is necessarily a linear process. Anyway, this is my last word on this subject.
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You are an anachronism, out of time and out of place. My responce had no connection to your #3 at all. My response was to the OP. Later, after review I corrected my assessment of his alloy by formula and He thanked me. In your haste to rudely rip me personally again you just babble nonsense without reading accurately as you have done repeatedly to me. I have had it with you, I've tried to handle this with PMs, but you continue to be a rude pest. Stay out of my posts and your PMs wont get through, you are ignore buttoned.
At this point,whether you man up or not, I am clicking to ignore you just as I have done to the other anachronism on this forum, 6ptstuka and his line of insults.
Gary
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Easy boys! Let's not argue.
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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Reading through the post's,I don't see any comments from onondaga that are or were directed to anachronisim.To me onondaga has a wealth of information to share and in a written text,things can be misunderstood and taken as sarcazem rather having the word spoken and hearing the voice
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I was responding to post #3 where you lectured me on everything you felt I was doing wrong. As an experienced caster, you surely realize that there is usually more than one way to accomplish your goals, and that neither alloy selection, nor bullet selection is necessarily a linear process. Anyway, this is my last word on this subject.
I fail to see where you were lectured or even addressed in Gary's post. Unless there was a “shoe” that fit. It would have been good if Gary's posts were read thoroughly. Pause should be shown before lashing out. Let's have fun here.
Pat
If someone else had of done to me what I did to myself . . . I'd have killed him. Humility is an asset. Heh - heh.
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OK Guys, Please cool it. It is easy to have misunderstandings with written only communication. Please be tolerant and respectful. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having different opinions on an issue and we should be able to discuss such differences without it becoming personal.
Please read over your posts and see if there is anything that could be read as insulting or annoying before sending.
If you think you have been insulted please PM the writer and try to clear it up in a civilized way. Most people don't intend to offend.
There is nothing unmanly about saying you are sorry or apologizing.
Thanks for your cooperation in keeping this forum the civil and informative place it has been.
John
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The current Lyman information lists this bullet as 150 gr from #2 alloy.
My old single cavity mould dropped bullets at the following weights:
Pure lead - 161 grains. Lyman #2 - 154 grains. Linotype - 150 grains.
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wimilkman
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pat i.
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Tom Acheson
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Aaron
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BRatigan
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MarkinEllensburg
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Ed Harris
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mashburn
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porthos
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