FFG/FFFG

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  • Last Post 08 May 2013
locksmith1 posted this 28 March 2013

In one of my books on what type of black powder Winchester used in loading the 50/95 WCF. At times they used 95 grs of fffg and other times they used 90 grs of ffg. The difference when using fffg was 57 fps more. The question is, is it practical to use fffg in this cartridge? The gun it will be used fired in is a new made 1876. Also the book states both loads were compressed before seating the 300 gr bullet. What say you out there? Locksmith1

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mike morrison posted this 28 March 2013

can't speak to the 50-95. My 45-60 shoots well with FF. I would think you will have to find what your rifle likes. I would work with both and see what you get. I use a card wad under the bullet and compress the powder .100 to .250. fff will need less compression than ff. good luck. m

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John Grantham posted this 28 March 2013

3f is a little too hot for a 50/90. You will experience hard fowling a couple inches from the end of the barrel. 1f would be the best choice.

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Ed Harris posted this 28 March 2013

What is your barrel length?

In .50 cal. and over 3Fg gives good results in SHORT barrels less than 24” when using blackpowder, but with longer barrels than 26” slower powder such as 2F or 1F gives less fouling. It will usually be more accurate because 3Fg causes more bullet base upset and deformation, but if your bullets don't fit, or are a bit too hard, you might try 3F to “work.” Not recommended practice.

Especially if your barrel length is 30” or greater 1F black as recommended by John is the right way to go.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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locksmith1 posted this 28 March 2013

Ed, the barrel is 22". I'm using the Lyman 340 gr. bullet cast from ww, sized .515. I had no luck using .510 or .512 dia cast bullets. I tried Tripple seven. Shoots good, but low velocity. Bob

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Ed Harris posted this 28 March 2013

With a barrel that short 3Fg is worth trying. I would try softer alloy than wheelweights. A 50-50 mix of ww and plumbers lead should get you about 9-10 BHN which is in the right ballpark.

FWIW in my .50 cal. muzzleloading carbine with 28” twist, 24” Green Mountain barrel, the 360-gr. Saeco Maxi-ball bullet hollowpointed by www.hollowpointmold.com and cast 1:40 with 50-50 Crisco and beeswax gives its best groups with 80 grs. of 3Fg or the equivalent in Pyrodex P for 1300 fps and it kills deer like lightning.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Lumpy Grits posted this 07 April 2013

Well, both of my Shiloh's(.45-70 & .45-90)really like Goex 3F. LG

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Michael K posted this 07 April 2013

I feed my 50-90 Sharps 94gr of Goex Fg with a lube cookie behind a 650 Paul Jones Creedmore and my 45-70 74grs of Goex FFg behind a 525gr Saeco 745. That being said, with your 50-95WCF if you have both FFg and FFFg try them both and go with what you rifle likes best. I decided on a starting weight in both of my rifles and then varied only the charge weight in 2gr incriments. By keeping COL constant this allowed the level of compression to vary. The actual charge weight had very little effect on velocities. In my 50 the loads ranged for 92gr up to 106gr, the difference was less than 100fps. What I did notice was how clean the burn was. The lighter charge weights with less compression left noticably more residue in the barrel. As the compression increased, the burn was cleaner and eventually leveled off. It was this point where accuracy began improve and velocity spreads narrowed. Since then I have realized that a case full of F, FF or FFF is only going to give so much velocity. Now I look at different charge weights as means of altering the amount of compression. Some folks will vary compression by altering how many over powder wads they use. Either method with work, each has it's merits and drawbacks.

But in getting back to your original query, try both grades or all 3. Run a series with i.e. FFg, then load the next series exactly the same with FFFg. I think you will find the exercise rather interesting and fun. If you have chronograph use it.

Good luck and have fun.

Michael.

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locksmith1 posted this 14 April 2013

I do have a chronograph. I'll get it out and see what happens. Thanks for the info. Bob

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locksmith1 posted this 06 May 2013

How about using 8.0 grs of 4227 with fffg powder? Bob

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argie1891 posted this 07 May 2013

How about using 8.0 grs of 4227 with fffg powder? Bob

i know it has been done for years but i personally have been afraid to try smokless under the black powder. for safety i wouldnt try it. i do know of one nice single shot muzzle loading horse pistol that blew up when using black and a small amount of red dot. argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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Michael K posted this 08 May 2013

For those who shoot duplex loads the general rule of thumb is not to exceed 10% of the BP charge weight with smokeless. In my limited experience I have not found duplex loads to be worth the effort or the worry. It does help BP burn cleaner, reduces fouling and bumps velocity up a bit, but at what cost or risk. Many sanctioned matches do not permit duplexing, likely more so for safety's sake than anything else.
I have found by either going with a faster grade of BP, or adjusting compression, and/or lube quantity i.e. adding a lube cookie, accomplishes the same goal without any possible “unpleasant” side effects or surprises associated with duplex loads. All the best, Michael.

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