96 Swede 6.5x55

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  • Last Post 14 June 2023
R. Dupraz posted this 24 April 2018

Made the mistake of going to the range yesterday. A fellow club member who was down the line a ways gives me a wave so down I go. He had just finished shooting a nicely sporterized an scoped  Carl Gustave 96 Swedish 6.5x55 Mauser at 100 and had to show me his 1" three shot groups with jacketed.  

The short version is that the rifle along with brass, bullets, dies and ultimately a new in the cosmoline wrapper 1903 Springfield Remington barrel dated 4-43 now have a new home. After some brushing and patching, the bore in that 96 looks very good. . 

So. has anyone gotten these rifles to shoot respectable groups with cast. I have always heard that it is a challenge because of the long throat in these things? Haven't measured the twist yet. 

 

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shastaboat posted this 14 June 2023

That is  a nice looking rig.

Because I said so!

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shastaboat posted this 14 June 2023

I worked with a M-96 sporterized and cut down to 18.5" barrel about 15 years ago.  Cock on closing and Dayton Traister trigger.  Lyman molds were 140 gr Loverin and 120 gr Loverin.  My rifle has about a .50" throat.  I could not get the 140 gr cast to group at all and determined that I was bending the bullets when sizing.  I located the 120 Loverin mold and dropped the velocity to 1700 fps.  I also had to harden my alloy and was shooting 70% COWW and 30% linotype which made the shorter bullet strong enough;  size .266.  Final bullet weight lubed and gas checked was 126 gr.  My load was 14 gr of SR7625.  (discontinued).  OAL was 2.917"  Bullet set to lightly jam the lands.  This load consistently shot  .75" groups at 100 yards.

I suspect I could have gotten the heavier Loverin bullet design to shoot well if cast hard and driven at less than 1700 fps.

Because I said so!

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bdrake71 posted this 05 June 2019

the bullets weren't bent from the mold.  I think I missed some thin for diameter bullets in my QC check before poly-coating them.  I like the mold so far but will be testing the next range trip with the 6.5mm molds I already own (100gr 266405, 125gr 266455 and the 140gr 266469).  the smallest bullet will probably have a huge jump to the rifle's rifling but we shall see how it goes.

The lead is very hard and the poly coat definitely helps with it as well.

Bruce

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JeffinNZ posted this 04 June 2019

HHMMMM.   I would have thought that hard enough.

Cheers from New Zealand

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bdrake71 posted this 04 June 2019

Jeff, the alloy is 2.5lbs of Magnum Shot, 2.5lb of Rotometals Superhard and 5lbs of range lead in my Lee 10lb pot.  The Lead formula chart says with those percentages are as follows.  Its not quite as hard as straight linotype but harder than hardball alloy. 

Tin%     Antimony%   Arsenic%  Copper% Silver% Lead%    Weight        Est. Hardness
0.08%   9.50%           0.31%       0.00%     0.00%    90.1%     10.0lbs       17.4

Each bullet also gets two coats of polymer paint: once before the gas check is put on and it is initially sized at .266 with a LEE-style sizing die and the second coat is done to seal the gas check in place while also providing some more poly coating and again sized back to .266. The bore today went like "new" with just a few strokes of the bore brush and some cleaning squares of cloth.

I'm only punching paper with this bullet so I'm not concerned if it doesn't expand but the long shank will probably cause it to tumble should it hit a bone in the deer if I take it hunting.

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JeffinNZ posted this 03 June 2019

What alloy are you using Bruce?  My Carcano will not shoot well above 14-1500fps with less than about 14 BHN and my twist is slower than yours.

Cheers from New Zealand

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bdrake71 posted this 03 June 2019

100 yard test today with the 170gr Lee Cruise Missile and the same load detailed before (30.5gr of IMR 4831 with a reduction formula velocity estimated at 1800fps).  at 100 yards, I had to place the rear sight one notch up from the 300 yard setting to hit the black consistently.  At round count 105-110, I started to get some tumbling so I'm going to scrub out the bore tomorrow to see if the polymer paint or simply carbon buildup from the powder was causing the occasional tumble.  That said, I'll also start miking the bullets more often as well to prevent any possible thin-for-diameter bullets from cold molds being used which might be a reason for the two flyers.



last string of polymer coated 170s.  Next string of 140gr Sierra MKs were right back to grouping.

previous groups were pretty good also without the flyers.

Bruce

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harleyrock posted this 01 June 2019

Larry Gibson:

WOW!  I don't have a 6.5 Swede but that treatise is good mojo for any cast bullet load development.

I have a Kimber 84M in 260 Remington that I have not tried to develop a cast load for.  It presents the opposite of the Swede's long throat problem.  It has a very short throat.  It is likely to be hard to find a bullet that will keep it's base inside the cartridge neck.  I suppose a bore riding neck would be imperative.

I have enough trouble developing CB loads for cartridges that are supposed to be easy to load.

Lifetime NRA since 1956, NRA Benefactor, USN Member, CBA Member

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BigMan54 posted this 01 June 2019

My DAD had a '96 when I was a kid, he used Norma brass, neck-sized in a 310 die. Cast the #266469 of Pure Lino in a 1cav mold. I remember press fitting the bright yellow gas checks, then Lubing the bullets by hand. No sizing of the bullet at all. Seated using a 310 die. Can't remember the powder, but this was the only Rifle/Cartridge we loaded in this fashion. 

And GOD help you if anything happened to one of those Norma cases. I do remember the Loads were pretty HOT. That steel buttplate HURT my 10yr old bony shoulder. even with the folded handtowel.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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shastaboat posted this 29 May 2019

Here is a pic of my M96 with an ultra light pencil thin military straight taper barrel to 16.5" and weights 6.5 lbs fully loaded with 5 rounds.  I converted it with a Dayton Traister to cock on opening and adjustable trigger.  The stock is a blind magazine design and eliminates the military magazine trigger guard.  The rifle is fantastic to carry in the field but difficult to hold steady because of it's light muzzle weight.  I've attached a pic of the rifle and also of one of my very successful targets with data noted.  Also the camera that I used to take the above cartridge pic will not focus very well but you can clearly see the 2 gas check cuts.  The top cut just acts as an additional lube groove.  The velocity averages about 1675 fps with measured ES of 11-15 fps from different days shooting.  My conclusion is also that the Lyman 266455 bullet at 120 gr is probably the best bullet design for the fast twist Swede but velocity needs to be reduced to the 1650-1700 fps level.  The Lyman 266469 140 gr, tends to bend when sizing/lubing and is a poor design.  Maybe cast in straight lino it would not bend.  I've heard of the cruise missile bullet design but because it is also a long skinny heavy bullet I doubt it's success.  My 266455 mold is NOT for sale...lol...

Because I said so!

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shastaboat posted this 29 May 2019

Larry Gibson has given a very good review of the 6.5x55 cartridge as is relates to the Swedish Mauser 96 rifles it was chambered in.  I have made some comments that support his findings.  The best bullet for shooting cast in this case and rifles is the Lyman 266455 if you can find one. It is discontinued.  I purchased mine from Eric at http://www.hollowpointmold.com/ 10+ years ago after failing to get any decent results form Lyman 266469.  My 266455 mold is unique that it has 2 gas check cuts, one above the other.  I have no idea if the mold design was intentional or a mistake but it shoots very well as can be seen in the attached pic.

Because I said so!

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 27 May 2019

bdrake71 ...  i give myself a  handicap of about 3 moa when using the military sights on these , so your early results are even better than you might think.    i often think the usa could have done worse than adopt the swede's cartridge creation ... we would probably still be using it.

ken

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bdrake71 posted this 26 May 2019

50 yard results with 170gr LEE bullet and M96 military rifle
First cast load and trip to the range with my 1906 made Swedish M96 model rifle.

50 yards using an NRA SR-1 100 yard target center.  
Frontier Brass, Winchester Large Rifle Primer
LEE 170gr Swedish mold from Midsouth Shooters Supply.  Poly coated, gaschecked and sized at .266
30.5gr of IMR 4831 with a reduction formula velocity estimated at 1800fps. I need to run it over the Chrony as the m96 long barrel probably will have an impact on actual achieved velocity.
The recoil was negligible and the bore was not loaded with powder granules which indicated to me a complete burn of the slow powder.
The target stand was tilted forward due to the slope of impact berm so I don't feel the bullets are tipping with this load as some have stated this mold design can lead too.
I think its a good start on developing a more accurate load for this rifle.  I shall try to get back to the gun club soon with this bullet and load reset into a ladder test.

Bruce

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shastaboat posted this 09 March 2019

I worked for 2 years getting my sporter 96 to shoot cast.  Started with 266469 bullet and was bending them when sizing/lubing them.  No accuracy and keyholing.  Found a discontinued 266455 mold that solved the trick   Also found that 1700 fps was the trick and loading just kissing the lands.  Finally was able to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards.

Because I said so!

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Scearcy posted this 03 March 2019

I am thinking Lapua cases in a factory chamber should mitigate many issues. Bullet fit, twist rate, etc these are normal problems.

BTW, everyone I found another very good article on shooting cast in a 6.5x55. Larry's article and now this one are going in the front of my 6.5x55 notebook.

"CAST BULLETS IN THE 6.5X55 SWEDISH MAUSER" by Glen Fryxell  Source: The Art and Science of Bullet Casting

Dated April 1, 2017

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RicinYakima posted this 03 March 2019

Well, I had a Remington 700 Classic when they first came out. Chamber was close to maximum SAMMI, but less than a Gustaf that I  had. Cases from the fired '96 would not chamber in the Remington. FWIW.

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Scearcy posted this 03 March 2019

Does anyone know if the chambers of commercial 6.5x55 rifles are demonstrably tighter than those of the Military Mausers. I have my eye on a new Ruger that has been on the dealers shelf quite some time. Everything I have found on the internet is written about the military rifles with large long throats. I'll have to buy that rifle before I can measure for myself.

Any experiences anyone has had would be helpful.

Jim

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alamogunr posted this 02 March 2019

"Just came across Larry Gibson's article "Accurate loading of cast bullets for the 6.5 Swede".

Larry, wherever you are, thank you very much for your professional and very informative article on loading for the Swede!"

 

Going through old threads to see what might be interesting, I ran across this one.  Since I have had a Swede for several years but never tried to develop cast loads for it, I decided to learn what I can.  I probably can't follow Larry Gibson's trials  but maybe I can learn something.

My point in resurrecting this thread is to ask where the original article might be found?

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alamogunr posted this 02 March 2019

 

"Just came across Larry Gibson's article "Accurate loading of cast bullets for the 6.5 Swede".

Larry, wherever you are, thank you very much for your professional and very informative article on loading for the Swede!"

 

Going through old threads to see what might be interesting, I ran across this one.  Since I have had a Swede for several years but never tried to develop cast loads for it, I decided to learn what I can.  I probably can't follow Larry Gibson's trials  but maybe I can learn something.

My point in resurrecting this thread is to ask where the original article might be found?

 

 

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Brodie posted this 02 March 2019

I bought a 6.5 Creedmore when they were first offered, and while it is very accurate and a pleasure to shoot I just don't like the pressures it runs at with jacketed.  About a year ago I found a 6.5x55 in a Churchill that I could afford.  I have not tried cast in it yet but it is a pure pleasure to shoot.  The rifle exhibits excellent accuracy and low recoil.  While it is not a 96 (the action looks like one of Weatherby's new models ) it is still a sweet heart.

My question is: "How do you load cast so as to deal with that fast twist (one in 6 or 7)?

Thank You.

B.E.Brickey

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