M&P 45 reloading

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  • Last Post 26 May 2013
dcrane 33 posted this 18 May 2013

Trying to reload lead 185 swc for my M&P 45c. The only way that I can get them to chamber is to seat the bullet so far in, that the round is below minimum oal. Can I not use swc bullets in my M&P, or am I doing something wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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Ed Harris posted this 18 May 2013

Will factory 185-grain jacketed wadcutters chamber?

If they do, measure their diameter at the case mouth.

If you attempt to chamber, then extract one of your loaded cast bullet rounds, is the bullet marked? What diameter are you sizing bullets to? Are you using a full-length profile-crimp die, such as the Lee or Redding?

Measuring your loaded rounds case mouth should be taper-crimped to .470” diameter, and case body at bullet base should not exceed .473". Don't know which bullet you are using, but 185-gr. short-nosed wadcutter similar to H&G 130 is OK as short as 1.185” with up to 4.5 grs. of Bullseye or 4.8 grs. of W231.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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dcrane 33 posted this 18 May 2013

Haven't tried factory wad cutters. I am sizing bullets to .451. I am using Lee dies including the factory crimp die. Using H&G 130. Accurate #5,8grs. Minimum OAL is 1.230". I will try your formula.

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Ed Harris posted this 18 May 2013

Accurate No. 5 is not the best powder for loading the .45 ACP. You will have much better results with Bullseye, W231 or WST.

With the H&G 130 best accuracy at 50 yards for target shooting will be had with 4.2-4.5 grs. of Bullseye, or WST, or 4.5-4.8 grs. of W231 or HP38.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Dale53 posted this 18 May 2013

Ed, as usual, is “Spot On"...

I have no experience with a Smith M&P but have world's of experience with 1911's and Smith 625's in .45 ACP. You can follow Ed's recipe and almost be guaranteed success.

I have an original H&G four cavity #130 mould. I have used that bullet extensively in both target and my old IPSC days. I shot light target loads (similar to what Ed suggests on the low end) for NRA Bullseye and full house loads using the same bullet for IPSC use. You will note that Ed's loads for full loads are a bit under what you'll see recommended with long nose wadcutters like the H&G #68 200 gr SWC. The #130 takes up more case capacity and needs about 1/2 grain less powder for full pressure loads when using fast burning powders.

FWIW Dale53

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mckg posted this 18 May 2013

I don't know about the M&P, but some 1911's hardly have any throating... the barrels' lands start right out of the chamber and won't allow any part of the bullet if of full diameter.

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dcrane 33 posted this 18 May 2013

I think that the chamber is probably similar to the 1911 because I'm having the same problem. I have to seat the bullet almost all the way in past the sholder to get it to chamber. I think that I will try Ed 's bullseye formula. I can't seem to find that recipe anywhere in my Lee or Lyman reloading books. I trust you Ed,but I just wanted to double check. Thanks guys for all your help. I have 500 H&G 130's and hope that I can use them. Just want to be safe.

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Ed Harris posted this 19 May 2013

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition, (2010) p.277

452460 200-gr. SWC at ctg. OAL 1.161” (similar weight and OAL required of H&G 130)

Bullseye start 3.5 grs., 645fps, 6,900 cup. Bullseye max. 5.6 IS EXCESSIVE - PROBABLE MISPRINT! Do not exceed 4.6 grs. at this OAL! 869fps, 15,700cup as published agrees with my experience for 4.5-4.6 grs. chronographed in various match pistols.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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dcrane 33 posted this 19 May 2013

Thanks again Ed. I'll let you know how I make out.

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PETE posted this 19 May 2013

The RCBS 185 BB bullet I use for target work in my Kimber (all I use it for) I use 3 8 grs. of Bullseye. OAL is 1.175 which just allows the bullet to kiss the rifling. Very accurate.

The light load I use in my Ruger 45LC/45 acp conversion using the above bullet is 3.3 grs. of Bullseye. OAL is 1.191. Shoots a shade under 2” at 25 yds.

I do have a top load but it's a little over the max. listed in the current Lyman manual so better not list that.

Pete

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delmarskid1 posted this 20 May 2013

I don't like AA5 much. AA2 is good if you have it.

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Ed Harris posted this 20 May 2013

AA2 is close to, but not identical to 231 or HP38, about 1/2 grain slower than Bullseye, 452AA or WST, 4.2 grs. to start, about 4.7-4.8 grs. with 200 SWC for “full charge."

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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DonH posted this 20 May 2013

Just a few added thoughts. I shot NRA Bullseye comp. for many years. I never loaded the H&G 130 (or it's Lyman counterpart) but recall those who did use it in 1911s seemed to need to do more “tuning” for reliable functioning. The 452460 Lyman which I idi use for some time, has a nose profile just enough different that it fed pretty reliably in my 1911 without feed ramp work. When I got a mold foe the H&G #68 I never looked back. Re: O.A.L., the std. Colt .45acp chamber is long enough that I/we would determine the o.a.l. by how far out of the case the bullet needed to be for the round to headspace on the bullet “shoulder".

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Vassal posted this 20 May 2013

You mean people are still shootin the ol 45???:D

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Ed Harris posted this 21 May 2013

Yes, but I prefer the ACP in a wheelgun!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Dale53 posted this 21 May 2013

Ed; I have over 100,000 rounds through my 1911's but freely admit that my favorite .45 ACP's these days are my two 625's. I LOVE not having to chase empties! I guess I am just enough “old school” to really enjoy shooting revolvers.

I was at the range today with my 625-8 JM Special w/Red Dot (lost the vision in my right eye a few years ago and truly appreciate the “help” that a red dot sight gives me).

FWIW Dale53

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dcrane 33 posted this 21 May 2013

Still waiting to try that Bullseye formula ED. Haven't been able to find Bullseye powder yet. Trying two other places today. Just loading empty cases with the H & G 130's at an OAL of 1.800 seems to chamber and cycle fine. Hopefully I'll find Bulleye, and can go to the range soon.

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Ed Harris posted this 21 May 2013

You can get the same results with 4.0-4.2 grs. of Red Dot or 700-X, 4.3-4.5 grs. of WST, or with 4.5-4.7 of W231 or HP38.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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dcrane 33 posted this 22 May 2013

Just got back from the range. I ended up using Red Dot. at 4 grains. Felt good when fired, and was pretty accurate at 5 yards. still had a chambering problem. Would fire the round but would not fully chamber the next round. Would only chamber first round when I hit the slide lock. OAL was set at 1.800. Will try at 1.7

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dcrane 33 posted this 22 May 2013

Sorry. I meant 1.180 and 1.170

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mckg posted this 23 May 2013

Do you have any marks on the ogive (land marks) or the brass (circular rubbing marks)? Some brands like Federal produce very thick brass, causing problems in tight chambers.

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delmarskid1 posted this 23 May 2013

A little bit ago there was a good thread going on using the stripped barrel as a chamber gauge. If fooling with loaded over all length doesn't get you what you are looking for finding out how your loaded rounds fit your chamber right before your eyes may help. My biggest butt biter used to be not getting all of the flare out when seating the bullet.

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dcrane 33 posted this 23 May 2013

There are no marks on the brass and I am using the stripped barrel as a chamber gauge. Doesn't seem to be a flaring problem. I guess M&P's just don't like SWC bullets. Chamber hits that shoulder on the bullet and keeps it from chambering all the way. Need to seat almost all the way in, so no shoulder is above the brass. This puts the OAL between 1.160 and 1.170. Can't seem to find any data to support this. Just going by what you guys are recommending and trial and error. Just to restate what I'm using--M&P 45 compact, H&G 185 grain LSWC, Red Dot 4.0 grains. Thanks to everybody for all your help.

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dcrane 33 posted this 23 May 2013

1.160 works. Red Dot 4.2 grains. Thanks for all your help guys.

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dcrane 33 posted this 25 May 2013

Whoops! Just got done loading 100 rounds. Had to refill my primer tray for the last 25. Finished reloading and realized that I had refilled with large rifle primers instead of large pistol primers. Should I change them out?

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Duane Trusty posted this 26 May 2013

dcrane 33

On the primer question yes!!!

I am suprised, unless I missed the comment, that someone has not mentioned using a Lee factory crimp die.

I have a post war National Match ( not Gold Cup) and the use of Lee Factory crimp die cured my chambering problems. I also shoot a M&P Compact 45 and need to use a 230 grain, a max load of Bullseye, and the Lee Factory Crimp Die for reliable functioning.

Duane Trusty

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Ed Harris posted this 26 May 2013

dcrane 33 wrote: Whoops! Just got done loading 100 rounds. Had to refill my primer tray for the last 25. Finished reloading and realized that I had refilled with large rifle primers instead of large pistol primers. Should I change them out?

As long as the primers got seated flush and don't protrude at all, this load is light enough that rifle primers won't raise pressure dangerously, so it is OK to try shooting a few to see if your pistol has adequate striker energy to set off rifle primers. This could be good to know, as it gives added confidence if you run into surplus ammo with known “hard” primers.

A USGI M1911A1 pistol will set off rifle primers. So will my Ruger single-action .45 Blackhawk, my Colt New Service M1909, my Webley Mk4 and my S&W .45 DA Hand Ejector Model of 1950 Military.

I consider a heavy striker blow a desirable characteristic!

If your pistol does not set off rifle primers reliably, that is something I would want to know before I would carry it for defense. If it doesn't, then that means you should not carry it with any ammo you have not fired at least 100 rounds of with no drips, runs or errors.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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dcrane 33 posted this 26 May 2013

Wasn't sure so I changed them out before your reply. Good to know for future reference though. As always-Thanks again Ed.

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