Casting 25:1, 205GR mould, .322 base, 775-800 degree melt. Visual (cosmetic) results are fine. Weights range from 204.4 - 205.6 GRS. For precision (BR) shooting, does it make sense to segregate by weight .......... ie. What would be acceptable weight range? 204.4-204.6, 204.7-204.9, 205.0-205.2, etc., etc. Any suggestions?
RayH
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Hey Terry:
The temp hit 74 today with 0 wind. Nicest day so far. But wouldn't you know it, the club Pres. thinks he's an instructor and has the range tied up all afternoon teaching a “carry gun class". rah, rah.
Check your PM box
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Greetings,
R. Dupraz,
Wind? South Dakota?
Have fun, hope your new year is shooting well.
TK
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Greetings, Others may have better answers, but what I was told is most molds are set for wheel weights, and most of my lead alloys are heavier. Of course, I may be waaaay off base, but I think that is the reason for heavier bullets and all mine are heavier than mold designation to some degree.
Also, when I get new lead, in a Lee pot I melt a bunch, then pour into biscuit tray segments equally. Melt a bunch more, then pour on top of first pouring, repeating a few times. After cooling, I repeat the process with the “biscuits” to make a large batch of lead that is pretty much the same. Then, when I pour bullets, I use the biscuits in my small melting pot and ladle the lead into the molds, starting to keep the bullets when the edges are crisp. That reduces my variance a lot. I keep like sets of lead separated so when I add a biscuit to the ladle pot it is the same batch as the lead in it already.
I don't use a thermometer, and would surely get less variance if I used one. I get a cadence going with putting the sprue back in the pot as I cast, and as Gary writes the cadence helps consistency a lot, and shoot more so you get more practice in casting (sic).
Hope this helps. Others are a lot more exacting than I, but my goal is heart of caribou, not 10-X. At this point I am meeting my goal at 100 yards with my TD's. Maybe someday I will go back to X's and rings, depends on if my back will ever let me shoot prone again.
TK
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I found for my casting that one thing improved my weight consistency the most. My pot temperature has the least variance if I drop sprues into a pan and only add them all at once to the pot when the pot is very low while I'm starting a new pot.
Dropping them back in, in groups has a very bad effect on temperature consistency. Dropping them back in, one at a time as you cast, only works well when your casting cadence is extremely accurate in timing from drop to drop...I mean clockwork accurate or your temperature wanders.
I was not able to see the wild temperature variances till I used a good thermometer or an outboard PID controller. Without one you just don't see the swing in temperature that causes casting weight to vary. Certainly without one, your sprue melting time is much more important and adding them only when starting a new pot is important for casting weight consistency.
The basics of reading casting quality are only a diagnosis of your work. You are doing well when you perfect your casting to get consistent complete fill-out and consistent velvety bullet surface indicating good thermodynamics.
Recognize that shiny bullets are small and you are only maximized when they are velvety and sharp. You control that with your cadence and thermodynamics.
Gary What is causing the weights to always be higher than the weight they are supposed to be? Its a 240 mold but the lowest I have been able to get is 248 grains.
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Hey all:
What is going on if I'm getting very large variation in weights? I tried to mold 240 grain 44 caliber using a lee bullet mold and I was getting weights from 248 to 262 grains. Having a VERY low variation in weight indicates that everything is consistent. There are a number of variables - ALL of which result in weight variation.
THEREFORE, ensure the following (and others will add more):
uniform time between emptying and filling the mould,
uniform mould temperature and temperature of the alloy,
uniform technique in filling the mould.
That is to say, if the temperature of the mould and the alloy are consistent and the technique in filling is consistent, you are a long way into getting uniform results.
Ah! The old “Practice makes perfect” adage I see.
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I found for my casting that one thing improved my weight consistency the most. My pot temperature has the least variance if I drop sprues into a pan and only add them all at once to the pot when the pot is very low while I'm starting a new pot.
Dropping them back in, in groups has a very bad effect on temperature consistency. Dropping them back in, one at a time as you cast, only works well when your casting cadence is extremely accurate in timing from drop to drop...I mean clockwork accurate or your temperature wanders.
I was not able to see the wild temperature variances till I used a good thermometer or an outboard PID controller. Without one you just don't see the swing in temperature that causes casting weight to vary. Certainly without one, your sprue melting time is much more important and adding them only when starting a new pot is important for casting weight consistency.
The basics of reading casting quality are only a diagnosis of your work. You are doing well when you perfect your casting to get consistent complete fill-out and consistent velvety bullet surface indicating good thermodynamics.
Recognize that shiny bullets are small and you are only maximized when they are velvety and sharp. You control that with your cadence and thermodynamics.
Gary
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Hey all:
What is going on if I'm getting very large variation in weights? I tried to mold 240 grain 44 caliber using a lee bullet mold and I was getting weights from 248 to 262 grains. Having a VERY low variation in weight indicates that everything is consistent. There are a number of variables - ALL of which result in weight variation.
THEREFORE, ensure the following (and others will add more):
uniform time between emptying and filling the mould,
uniform mould temperature and temperature of the alloy,
uniform technique in filling the mould.
That is to say, if the temperature of the mould and the alloy are consistent and the technique in filling is consistent, you are a long way into getting uniform results.
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Hey all:
What is going on if I'm getting very large variation in weights? I tried to mold 240 grain 44 caliber using a lee bullet mold and I was getting weights from 248 to 262 grains.
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I agree with dupraz, all the other work is for naught, if u fail to read the WIND. Jim
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I don't know about orienting the bullet to the thinnest part of the neck. But do think that the rest of that craziness does make a difference. I outside turn the necks just enough to make them uniform anyway.
It won't make a 6 into an X but believe the groups have been tighter and more round, which translates into more tens and X,s, since I started using an index mark in the mold to cast, size, load and chamber. I began to see fewer of “what the hell happened to that one” shots over time.
That is when the wind reading factor is left out of the equation, which is a whole nother game.
RD
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At that weight bullet, 1.1 grain difference should let you shoot all of them. If you wanted to get really picky, cut it down to a .7 grain difference by losing the lighter 1/4 of them.
Wow, that's pretty good casting.
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Case orientation is something I've heard that some bench resters do. They take it a step further. They put a small punch mark on the mould. Then they check each case on a runout gage and find the thinnest part of the neck (if they don't neck turn). They put a notch on the case rim to indicate that thin spot. Then when seating the bullet, the punch mark is aligned with the notch. Then when chambered, the notch is always at the 12:00 position in the chamber.
With turned necks they still do it but use something other than the notch (to avoid the work of notching) to orient the bullet to the case so they can remember what the “orienter” mark is for chambering if they don't apply the notch.
I wonder if all this craziness helps!
Tom
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I used WIN. headstamped cases. I would orient the “I” at the top of the chamber, as in I WIN. It did give me a bit of confidence knowing those case were situated in the chamber the same way each shot. Plus the added impulse to win as the cases said! “ANY thing that helps is a plus” according to my old coach!
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Can't resist either!
I started out weighing, looking for the odd way underweight critters in the pile. After awhile I decided to sort them by 1/10th grain. During shooting season I work my way through the collection from lightest to heaviest. The bullets I shoot in the April match won't have the weight as the June match but that don't matter. On match day the bullets are are all very similar in weight and that's probably just a mental thing but I'm sticking to it!
Tom
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I find the light weights that I cast, seem to come when my pot temp get's above 800 degrees. when ,I drop the temp lower the weights even out. I segregate my bullets by +/- two- tenths grain. It may not be needed, but , it makes me feel better. Jim
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As far as the testing thing goes, I tried that also. I found no real difference in bullets weighed or not IF the other loading steps were consistent! I shot sillywets with several calibers from 30-30, 7TC/U and 45-70. In the “old” days with full footed rams, it was hard to knock over the rams with the 7TC/U and 145/150 grain cast."Head” shots were the norm. I tested lots of rounds on paper out to 300 yards that were not used on silly wets, but on deer and ground hogs. I USUALLY shot 4 groups of five shots. Taking a shot about once a minute or so at each corner of the target. At the end there would be 20 holes in the paper. THEN a new target and load was used. It was easy to see the results when held up to a light. These tests were what led ME to quit wasting time on weighing the bullets. IF one group was bad, it seemed the mold or alloy was at fault. Juggling the powder charge would cause erratic results.
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Bill, way back when I was assinine about this stuff. I noticed the same phenomenom of light bullets. I started to sort them by cast, each throw was set in the line just so! I noted what I had done at each throw, added alloy ,changed molds what ever. It seemed the light bullets were happening when the melt was cooler for whatever reason. Or the MOLD was cooler because I was changing over to another one in the mix.
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I have noted ~5 gr heavier with lead splattered on the mold tops or the bottom of a sprue plate. This raises the sprue plate, makes bullets longer and heavier, but I usually catch that and clean it up pretty fast.
Flash or splatter between mold mold plates can cause fins on the bullets to make ~5 gr heavier bullets. Those defects are easy to spot and then clean the mold.
The combination of a warped or held up by splatter sprue plate plus a flash between mold blocks from inconsistent closure or splatter on the mold blocks could add ~10 gr to a bullet and it could be missed in a visual only inspection. So there is one way to get +10 gr. But, You are getting 10 gr lighter bullets.
Ten out of 300 is very good in my opinion. You might bring that down with increased mold maintenance and casting method modification. Swirl casting that I have discussed many times plus a larger puddle on the sprue plate when casting will minimize or completely avoid getting casting voids that lighten bullets.
So, if you are getting light bullets with voids, try the classic swirl casting, or if your casting equipment setup will allow, the Lyman Pressure Casting method with a Lyman bottom pour spout pot and Lyman molds, then pressure casting could solve the problem also.
Gary
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I'm entering the “to weigh, or not to weigh” fray with something I found interesting. I hope others do also. Recently, I have been having some success with the Lyman 311299 bullet. With the last batch I cast,(approx. 300 out of 2 cavities) I was getting some results showing promise. (Whl. Wts. with a bhn ~11.) I decided to weigh some just to see how uniform they were. Out of the #2 cavity, (at this time, the only one checked for this particular phenomenon.) I was running along, smugly satisfied that all the bullets checked inside a weight envelope of ~200 gr. +/- less than half a grain. Then, unexpectedly, I came upon one that weighed almost exactly 190 gr. I kept on weighing until I had 10 of those lightweights; it took quite a few bullet weighings to get the 10. I kept the loaded rounds with the lighter bullets segregated from others, and used the same powder charge I used for the “normal” weight bullets of 200 gr. The surprise came in the shooting. Not only was the point of impact exactly the same as the heavier castings, but the grouping was the same size, a tie size-wise with the other bullets. Now, I'm sure that there had to be a reason for the light bullets, most probably because of the dreaded “void” inside, although the bullets checked visually the same as the other heavier bullets. And, the way they're shooting, I find myself reluctant to spoil even one by sectioning it. Does anyone have a potential reason for the lightweights, except a void? I can't think of another reason. According to this, bullets of the same profile, and a full 10 gr. lighter, made no difference. Mystifying.
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.
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John, I agree. For the vast majority of bullet casters, weight sorting is a waste of time. The only reason I do it is because I am trying to achieve the ultimate accuracy out of my ammo. In IHMSA silhouette, you can shoot a perfect score if you can keep all your shots inside 6 MOA at 200 meters. But that is just to get to the shoot-offs. Then I am called upon to engage a target as small as 3” at 200 meters......with a handgun. This is scoped of course, but I have only a 6X on my XP100. I have been able to get my XP to group in the 1.2 MOA range with cast, after long and tedious load developement, part of which is weight sorting. The difference is probably marginal at best, but it is a step I am willing to take if it will gain me just one more target per match. The steps I take loading my ammo are far beyond what most people require for an enjoyable day at the range. But the accuracy demands of my sport prompt me to take those steps. It's not for everybody. But hey, I'm retired and I find any time I spend at the loading bench as time well spent. Almost as much fun as range time.
Now as far as my 40 S&W and my 45ACP, I would never bother with weight sorting. Cast, load, shoot, and enjoy.
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